Therkyn

Q: TC Extended Network

I have a 5th Gen Time Capsule ("TC") (firmware 7.7.7). I would like to extend the wireless network using a 4th Gen TC (firmware 7.6.7) (Both TC's have the latest firmware available for them). I would like to do so without an Ethernet cable connecting the two TC's. I have attempted to follow the various instructions for Airport Extreme devices to no avail. The process works just fine with the two TC's connected by Ethernet. But I cannot get it to work wirelessly.

 

I have fully gone through both of these:

Set up 802.11n (AirPort base stations: Setting up and configuring an extended wireless network (802.11n) - Apple Support) May 13, 2016

Set up 802.11g (Wi-Fi base stations: Extending the range of your wireless network by adding additional Wi-Fi base stations - Apple Suppo…) August 11, 2015

 

The problem appears to be the TC is insistent that even though it is extending the wireless network, it must be connected to the internet itself.

Airport Time Capsule 802.11ac, 5th Gen TC & 4th Gen TC

Posted on Sep 19, 2016 10:59 AM

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Q: TC Extended Network

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  • by LaPastenague,Helpful

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Sep 19, 2016 2:04 PM in response to Therkyn
    Level 9 (52,645 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 2:04 PM in response to Therkyn

    How is the Gen5 TC setup if it doesn't have internet? It must have dhcp working at least for the setup to work.

     

    Setting up extend wireless should be the simplest possible setup.

     

    Did you factory reset the Gen4 TC before you started.. ?? If you do that it should pretty much automagically work.

     

    A few screenshots of where things go wrong helps no end.

     

    I just happen to have a Gen5 TC and a Gen4 in the same room so I can easily replicate the setup.

  • by Therkyn,

    Therkyn Therkyn Sep 19, 2016 2:03 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 2:03 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Gen 5 TC has internet.  I agree, should be really simple. The factory reset/auto set works if I have the TC 4 connected by Ethernet cable to the TC 5.  But the second I disconnect the cable, it goes blinky yellow and complains it does not have internet. It then greys out of the airport utility (meaning its not accessible on the network).  If I cable directly into the TC 4 when its doing this, the TC 4 complains of lack of internet. I'll get screen shots tonight.

     

    If I do the factory reset thing on the TC4 with just the wireless, Airport Utility will not let me get to the other options (extend a network), it insists I need WAN access before it will allow me to select other options.

     

    Again, works wonders with a cable, auto sets and everything. I've read where people set up with a cable and then move the device to the new location and it works there (but those are Airport Express users). I've tried that as well, no joy.

  • by LaPastenague,Helpful

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Sep 19, 2016 2:48 PM in response to Therkyn
    Level 9 (52,645 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 2:48 PM in response to Therkyn

    I will give you my take on it..

     

    I am a great believer in ethernet and setting up things manually. But for extend wireless it should be pretty much plug and play.. !! My Mac is currently having network issues.. (I have a rather over complex network as I change things around all the time to help people.. ) so I am going to do this manually over ethernet.

     

    1. MOST important.

    The airport utility has a setting for ethernet and one for wifi. Apple does not seem to recognise that both are networks that should end up in the same place.. (5.6utility had no issues.. but ever since v6 you now need to choose).

     

    Change over to ethernet. (This is located in such an obvious place it was sheer accidental I found it).

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.14.47 AM.png

     

    2. In this case I am going to change tcgen4again from ethernet to wireless extend. You should be able to reproduce this if you have a working ethernet connection.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.23.30 AM.png

     

    3. Click on the TC and click edit. Make sure Internet says DHCP.

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.26.49 AM.png

     

    4. Now most important go to the wireless tab.

    Select Extend a wireless network.

    Select the name of the wireless network you wish to join.

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.27.09 AM.png

     

    5. Select update at the bottom of the page and immediately disconnect the ethernet.. you MUST NOT have ethernet connected to WAN port of the airport when using wireless extend.

     

    NOW life might start getting a little odd. You might need to reboot everything. You might need to make sure you have wireless turned on now .. for reasons that make no logical sense my Airport utility now looks like this.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.33.09 AM.png

     

    This is where the reboot helps to fix things.. it is showing a solid line (ethernet) instead of a dotted line as it should for wireless but it is in fact now connected by wireless.

     

    By judicious reboots and swapping the airport utility back to wireless from ethernet it does show up correctly.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.35.50 AM.png

     

    It is just how things are with latest airport utility.

     

    But it is all working correctly.. the red 1. is just I am running 7.6.1 firmware (IMHO it works better, you might also find it works better).

     

    Check the results by clicking on the TC and check it has IP all correct.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.41.27 AM.png

     

    If you roll your mouse pointer over connection.. which according to the Apple Utility is now and forevermore, Unknown.. you will find the specific details about the link.

  • by Therkyn,

    Therkyn Therkyn Sep 19, 2016 2:49 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 2:49 PM in response to LaPastenague

    I'll try tonight.  Thanks!  I was not disconnecting the wired Ethernet on reboot, but instead after restart, which sounds from your explanation that it might be the source of the problem...

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Sep 19, 2016 3:13 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 9 (52,645 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 3:13 PM in response to LaPastenague

    I should also show you the automatic version of all that.

     

    This is the right way.. the above method is the down a deep dark pit and need to climb out method.

     

    1. Factory reset.

    Factory reset universal

    Power off the TC.. ie pull the power cord or power off at the wall.. wait 10sec.. hold in the reset button.. be gentle.. power on again still holding in reset.. and keep holding it in for another 10sec. You may need some help as it is hard to both hold in reset and apply power. It will show success by rapidly blinking the front led. Release the reset.. and wait a couple of min for the TC to reset and come back with factory settings. If the front LED doesn’t blink rapidly you missed it and simply try again. The reset is fairly fragile in these.. press it so you feel it just click and no more.. I have seen people bend the lever or even break it. I use a toothpick as tool.

    N.B. None of your files on the hard disk of the TC are deleted.. this simply clears out the router settings of the TC.

    2. Locate the TC that needs configuration by clicking on Other WiFi devices (1) .

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.50.27 AM.png

     

    3. Click the Airport Time Capsule.. blah blah blah.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.51.40 AM.png

     

    4. This will start the setup wizard.

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.53.00 AM.png

     

    5. Since the two TC are now sitting about 1M apart.. the wizard selects the airport extreme at the other end of the house.. it is just logical isn't it.

    Fix Apple logic to human logic.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.54.39 AM.png

     

    6. Fix ghastly Apple names for correct network names.. short, no spaces and pure alphanumerics.

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.55.01 AM.png

     

    7. Click next and hope for the best.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.56.17 AM.png

     

    8. Be patient.. this is a trial. A test of your maturity.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.56.39 AM.png

     

    9. Hmmm.. maybe I should not do these posts in real time.. It could well be unhappy with the identical name to the last time.. but I have used so many names now I forget which I have used.

    Voila.. total failure.. but a reboot might just fix it.

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 7.59.36 AM.png

    NOTE.. important.. Try again is not the correct approach.. not until you are sure this is not just a stupid network glitch in the Matrix.

     

    10. Did you turn it off and on again????.. is now not just the refrain of the windows world..

    The TC is actually properly configured and working.. it just failed to show up without a reboot.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 8.02.39 AM.png

     

    Working just fine.. !!

     

    That was easier.. wasn't it.. well just a wee bit.

    Remember a new network setup needs reboots of all the network components involved and it probably extends further than just the airports and goes back to everything.. restart in correct order.

    Modem.. wait 2min

    Main router.. wait 2min (this might be a TC or might be the modem itself).

    Extend wireless .. wait 2min

    All the clients.

  • by Therkyn,

    Therkyn Therkyn Sep 19, 2016 5:37 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 5:37 PM in response to LaPastenague

    I love the unexpected error has occurred. That was my mantra last night...

  • by LaPastenague,Solvedanswer

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Sep 19, 2016 5:49 PM in response to Therkyn
    Level 9 (52,645 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 5:49 PM in response to Therkyn

    I came back a couple of hours later and the TC was offline. Front LED is flashing amber and showing as not available..

     

    There are some reliability issues with extend wireless.. and sometimes using different models.. Gen4 to Gen5 is dramatically different.. age catches up.. the Gen4 must be coming up to 5years and the Gen5 TC is now 3 years + so I am finding it increasingly difficult to get them to behave reliably.. the two gen5 Airport Extreme on the other hand have worked perfectly for months now.. doing extend wireless.

     

    If you end up having reliability issues.. I recommend you seriously consider wiring with ethernet to wherever you need it in the house or using powerline adapters as a middle alternative between ethernet and wireless.

  • by Therkyn,

    Therkyn Therkyn Sep 19, 2016 8:01 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 8:01 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Well shoot. Thanks for the follow up. It'll have to be powerline for now.  I was trying to get coverage to the backyard and don't feel like crawling the house again... I'll put it on the wish list.

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Sep 19, 2016 11:17 PM in response to Therkyn
    Level 9 (52,645 points)
    Wireless
    Sep 19, 2016 11:17 PM in response to Therkyn

    I would try it out.. don't just give up, immediately.

    I am in the same situation.. I should have run ethernet years ago.. but I am too old to crawl around in ceiling spaces etc. The setup with extend wireless has worked for about a year and then died.. I could never figure out why.. but actually it could have been adding the Gen5 TC to the network that ruined things.

    I subsequently moved the extreme so the main unit is still connected by ethernet but now much closer to the extend unit.. and that has made all the difference. Having the Gen5 TC out of the way might have also helped.

    There is a fair bit of playing around to get this working.

     

    One other suggestion.. v5 airport utility is hugely more useful than v6. There is stuff on internet for how to load it into El Capo.. not recommended but works for me.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-09-20 at 4.08.39 PM.png

     

    The v5 utility cannot read the Gen5 TC perfectly but it can still do a reasonable job and does show what is going on. Plus you can run both at the same time by double clicking on the second TC.

     

    The interesting thing is that the two ends of the link are different.

     

    The Gen4 TC links at 130-144Mbps. It has signal and noise of -31db and -79db

     

    At the Gen5 TC the link is solid at 216Mbps and has signal of -25db (noise at 0db is false reading).

     

    Putting that together.. the Gen4 TC is producing better signal than the Gen5. The Gen5 is linking properly to full speed on 2.4ghz whereas the Gen4 cannot link as well to Gen5.

    I have also used different names on the bands and forced the connection to 5ghz.. and at times that has worked much better. On auto setup it seems to always link now to 2.4ghz.