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IMAP trash emptying on its own

10213 Views 60 Replies Latest reply: Mar 10, 2008 1:22 PM by Simon Pick RSS
  • Graham - Sonos Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 5, 2007 4:19 PM (in response to fakeExpert)
    I am running the 1.1.2 firmware...

    i tried setting my iphone to use its own trash folder (iPhone Trash) but am still seeing messages disappear from my regular trash folder. I did a simple test of sending myself messages that had 'test 1' 'test 2' etc and deleting them. they were sent on Dec 3rd and have vanished from my trash as of today.

    I'm going to try changing the delete settings on the iphone to one month, but i would assume that that wouldn't change anything since i dont even have it set to the same folder (i.e. iphone has its own trash folder).

    I'm also going to test another account (also IMAP, also accessed with Mail.app and iPhone) that is with another provider to see if it could be an interaction with the server (bluetie.com)

    thanks,
    -graham
  • fakeExpert Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2007 11:52 AM (in response to Graham - Sonos)
    It sounds to me like either Mail.app or some server setting must be causing the mail in the "regular" trash to get emptied. Maybe you have Mail.app set to empty the trash when quitting Mail?

    Once you have switched the iPhone to use its own iPhone trash folder, it should treat the "regular" trash as a plain-old folder. Maybe the iPhone is still set to use the "regular" trash folder? You can verify this by deleting an email on the iPhone. It should "land" in the special iPhone Trash folder, NOT the "regular trash" one.
  • MacPaint Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 6, 2007 12:29 PM (in response to fakeExpert)
    fakeExpert said:

    "It sounds to me like either Mail.app or some server setting must be causing the mail in the "regular" trash to get emptied."

    Mail.app keeps getting blamed for the cause of this, but I don't use Mail.app and still have this problem. Others have said the same thing.
  • fakeExpert Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2007 7:51 AM (in response to MacPaint)
    Well, we now KNOW that a bug in iPhone mail does indeed cause this symptom, but ONLY when the "empty mail" setting is set to "Never". Since this user claimed that his iPhone was NOT set this way, and yet he was still seeing the symptom, the only logical conclusion is that something else must be responsible. Furthermore, it is indeed possible to configure Mail.app (or any other IMAP client, for that matter) to result in these symptoms. Likewise, server-based settings can also come into play. I was merely suggesting that if the iPhone was indeed ruled out in this case, that something else must be responsible. And Mail.app IS one possible culprit. I was not saying that Mail.app is in general to "blame" for this issue. As far as I can tell, there is nothing wrong with the way Mail.app handles IMAP mail.

    In your case, since you do not use Mail.app, you will have to figure out for yourself where the problem lies. I suggest examining the "empty trash" settings on all the clients you use to access your Imap account, and also check if there are any server-side settings that control trash-emptying... If you have multiple clients, an effective way of isolating them is to use separate trash folders for each, as initially suggested at the top of this thread.
  • MacPaint Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2007 1:19 PM (in response to fakeExpert)
    I can personally rule out that my mail client or my mail provider is to blame based on the following facts:

    1. i don't use a mail client, I use a web interface (which I admit is a type of mail client and has the capability to automatically purge emails, but more importantly...)

    2. i have had the same email provider for about 3 years. the trash folder had never been involuntarily purged at any point during that period. in fact it had never been purged at all. i had many, many emails in my trash. the first time my trash was emptied out occurred after I got my iPhone.
  • MacPaint Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 7, 2007 1:20 PM (in response to claydough)
    Let me take a moment to update the thread and see where we are at.




    Problem:

    When using an IMAP account on the iPhone and the "empty mail" setting is set to Never, the iPhone involuntarily purges the trash folder.

    User that are experiencing this problem (regardless of firmware) are:

    Graham - Sonos
    Jeffrey Shanahan
    Roel Smelt
    MacPaint



    *+Possible solution+* (suggested by user domim):

    Use the restore feature (as opposed to the upgrade option) and update the firmware to 1.1.2.




    Can anyone else verify this solution works? Anything else to add?

    Message was edited by: MacPaint
  • Graham - Sonos Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2007 1:58 PM (in response to MacPaint)
    Hi,

    small update from me... i ran the same test that i ran before, sending myself a number of emails with an easy to track subject line (test 1, test 2 etc) this time to an account on a different service provider.. but also accessed by Mail.app 3.0 and iPhone. The trash settings are the same on Mail.app and iPhone... after 3 days, which is longer than the test made it the first time... all of the messages are still in my trash where they belong.

    So initial impressions from my experience is that the imap implementation/imap host may be an influencing factor in what is happening.

    -graham
  • domim Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 8, 2007 11:57 PM (in response to Graham - Sonos)
    The server-side protocol implementation is definitely a factor. E.g. Exchange server do not move a deleted item to the trash although setup correctly.

    I just wanted to repeat my experience. When I upgraded to 1.1.2 I actually restored my phone completely and did NOT restore from backup in iTunes. I rather set up everything new and since then my trash is not emptying by itself anymore. I have a Gmail, a .mac, two Exchange (2003 & 2007) as well as a CommuniGate Pro server accounts. All are working fine except Exchange delete does not work properely. But that's a different story. And I have all accounts set to NEVER DELETE!

    Maybe one of you still having problems could also do a restore and set up the accounts from scratch? Maybe some settings from a previous firmware version does screw up?
    MacBook Pro 15" 2,16 GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 120GB HD, 2GB RAM
  • fakeExpert Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 9, 2007 12:02 AM (in response to MacPaint)
    MacPaint:
    I think you have a different problem than Graham. He stated that his "regular" trash gets emptied even when iPhone is configured to use a different trash folder. If the iPhone is set to use a separate trash folder, I don't think it will touch the "regular" trash folder, no matter what the "empty trash after" option is set to. I therefore concluded that there must be something OTHER than iPhone to blame in Graham's case. Hence my suggestions involving Mail.app and/or server settings.

    In your case, it seems to me that you must be experiencing the "trash empties quickly even though it's set for never" bug. The same problem the rest of us here have been experiencing. I think we are all in agreement that THIS issue is indeed an iPhone bug.

    How do we get this bug reported to Apple?

    In the meantime, for me, using the "empty after 1 month" setting on iPhone is a reasonable workaround.
  • Jeffrey Shanahan Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 10, 2007 3:57 AM (in response to MacPaint)
    I have completely restored to 1.1.2 from scratch, without using a backup.

    I can confirm that I am still losing my trash mail that is longer than one week old.

    All of my settings are correct...set to never empty trash.

    The only work around for me is to set the trash to go to a different folder on the iPhone.
    MacBook Pro 2.33 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, Mac OS X (10.5.1), iPhone
  • Graham - Sonos Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 18, 2007 10:27 PM (in response to Graham - Sonos)
    Another update, in my case it doesn't turn out to be host specific, after a bit more time i lost my trash from my second provider as well.
  • Roel Smelt Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2007 3:00 PM (in response to Graham - Sonos)
    The work around I have used is to set the iPhone (1.1.2) to remove after 1 month. Now all my emails in the trash are deleted after one month.
  • MacPaint Level 1 Level 1 (40 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2007 3:37 PM (in response to Roel Smelt)
    We have a few work arounds, but no solution.


    *APPLE WHERE ARE YOU?!* Why isn't this fixed?
  • John Pietrzak Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Dec 19, 2007 5:55 PM (in response to Graham - Sonos)
    Another "me, too" here -- I'm running my e-mail off a dovecot IMAP server on my Linux box, and I am seeing the same behavior from the iPhone "Deleted Messages" folder. (I hadn't really checked before, as I tend not to worry so much about when my deleted messages are actually removed, but the iPhone is in fact set to "never" remove deleted messages...)

    --John
    Mac Mini, Mac OS X (10.4.11)
  • Steve Madsen Calculating status...
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 1, 2008 11:27 AM (in response to John Pietrzak)
    Me, too.

    Just got an iPhone about a week ago and I never delete messages from the trash. I keep everything and archive the trash into a new folder at the end of each year. I go to do it today and there's nothing there older than a week.

    I filed a bug with Apple, #5666028. I hope something comes from it.
    PowerMac G5 (rev. B, dual 2.0), Mac OS X (10.5.1)

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