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20544 Views 261 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2008 9:48 AM by gbeberman
i hate to have to jump in with a me-too response, but i think its really important for senior management at Apple to realize that there are lots of frustrated photographers out there when it comes to RAW support in Aperture.
you've really got to decouple the support for these files from the OS updates. you did it once before and it seemed to be successful. i'm not sure why this didn't become the norm. the team needs to wrest control of Image Capture from the OS team along with the image import frameworks.
i shoot sometimes over 1000 shots per week and trying to manage all of this outside of the Aperture environment is painful. you loose your trusted vaults, Bridge CS3 is cumbersome to work with, and honestly i got so frustrated with Aperture starting up each time i stuck a card in my reader, i changed the system prefs open No Application when a camera (card) is attached. the next step in that progression is to look for an alternative application to handle what Aperture did with such aplomb.
i waited and waited on the purchase of my D200 when it first came out and i wasn't exactly an early adopter on the D300 either (just got mine 2 weeks ago). but still, with each camera i had to wait several weeks until the OS would support it.
i won't even go into how long Leopard has been out and how utterly and completely broken the Automator support is for Aperture. almost all of the actions are broken. do we even get a warning about this from the Aperture team? no instead we get podcasts with Derrick Story and Joe Shorr telling us how great Aperture is under Leopard. a real classy move there too.
scottPowerMac G5 2.5GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.8), MacBook Pro 2.0GHz
Thank you for this, Joe. It's great to hear. I personally don't need a date, just the occasional assurance that Aperture is alive and well and +still being developed+. Silence is frustrating.PowerBook G4, Mac OS X (10.5.1)
Currently Being ModeratedJan 30, 2008 3:18 PM (in response to scott nichol)
scott nichol wrote:
i won't even go into how long Leopard has been out and how utterly and completely broken the Automator support is for Aperture. almost all of the actions are broken. do we even get a warning about this from the Aperture team?
Someone may have solved this - http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6353467� - though Apple should have investigated and put out a kb article or something for it.PowerBook G4 15"/1.67GHz/DVD-DL/2GB + 23" ACD, Mac OS X (10.4.10), Mini-CD/1.83/1GB/10.4.10 Mini-G4/1.42/512MB/10.5.1 PB-G4/500/768MB/10.3.9
reposting from other thread.
Joe thank you for taking the time to read(and reply to ) the forums. As you can see the natives (myself included) are quite restless. Unlike an Iphoto or an Apple TV - Aperture is a product that many of use use for our livelihood. So the lengthy delay on the update creates a painful scenario. Given the long list of workflow products that have managed to update their systems to support the new nikon hardware - it's pretty hard to excuse Apple's delays up to this point. Add top that is the fact this hardware has been very successful. It's actually difficult to find the Nikon D300 and the D3 is sold out everywhere.
I think the principle issue here is the lack of a specific timeline. If Apple were to release a conservative statement such as - "Nikon RAW support will be available on February 15th" - we wouldn't be happy but many of us would just grin and bear our lightroom trials until that date. Much of the constant complaining would die down.
But given the uncertainty - many of us are seriously considering Lightroom because it looks like a safer bet for a working professional that periodically upgrades his/her equipment. This is not a thought I relish - purchasing new software is expensive in terms of cost and training time. Not to mention the huge library of images I currently have invested in Apertures managed library system. This is after I spent a considerable sum of money upgrading my computers in order to run Aperture more effectively.
Let's be clear here - I'm a HUGE fan of your product. It has changed the way that I work. I purchased your product at the original price when 1.0 shipped and worked through all the issues to 1.5 today. It has a few warts that I'm more than willing to put up with because I think it does a fantastic job of managing my libraries. There's only one wart I can't tolerate though - and that is of course the extremely slow turn around on new RAW converters.
Please consider this as an impassioned plea from someone who feels he's being forced to embrace the competition. As far as dates go - *Apple has released timeframes on Apple TV updates. So there is corporate precedent.*
Help us Joe Schorr - you're our only hope.....Mac Pro & Mac Book Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.4), (empty wallet)
any solution that involves "Show Package Contents" on an application would not be endorsed within the Knowledge Base by Apple. too much risk of mucking up the application. and the fact that a solution like this exists does not excuse Apple or the Aperture team from not warning us that a Leopard upgrade would break these kinds of workflows.PowerMac G5 2.5GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.8), MacBook Pro 2.0GHz
I want to say thank you for the reassurance concerning the Aperture update. I'm angry like many other Aperture users who are shooting everyday with the Nikon D3 that it has take so long. It's been a very difficult couple of months for my business because I committed my workflow so completely to Aperture. I'm trusting that the update/upgrade, presumably Aperture 2.0 will have been worth the wait. I love Apple as a company and I love their products. I wish more resources were devoted to the pro applications rather than iPod/iTunes/iPhone etc., but what do I know (or anyone else outside the company) about how things work in Cupertino. If Aperture 2.0 is brilliant we will all forget about this seemingly overly long wait in short order and rave about the new product. I have met and spoke to you personally in the past and I know you are completely dedicated to making this the best product for working photographers and I'm sure if you ran the company the update would have been with us a while back. We as photographers have a hard time understanding that Apple has customers other than us sometimes. I'm leaving tomorrow for a week on the road and I'm hoping when I get back there will be a software upgrade waiting for me.
Again, thanks Joe Schorr, for doing something almost unprecedented within Apple... commenting (more or less) on an upcoming unreleased product and hopefully calming most of us down a notch in the process.
Walnut Creek CAMac Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.1)
But RAW support ISN'T an Aperture-only feature. It is supported at the OS level.
So this is more "spin control", right?
(this message will probably be deleted by Apple moderators... since Apple doesn't like to be criticized on their own board. read it while you can. )
You (Apple) had the D3 and D300 cameras before they were released to the general public. You could have released support when the cameras were released. You CHOOSE to release support for the cameras at the same time as the release of Aperture that you are hinting at. I'm guessing that the Aperture release is later than you would have liked (i.e. originally scheduled). Yes, software is hard, I get that.
I bought Lightroom because, after waiting and waiting in [Apple] silence, I wanted to use the full capacity of my new camera.
When is "soon"?
Will the "new features" include bug fixes, so that Aperture doesn't crash once per hour of usage? That would be a great feature.New Lightroom user, Windows XP
Joe: while I am more optimistic after reading your post, I can't help but wonder about Apple's commitment to Aperture. Should I invest even more time (and money) in professional software that appears to have been neglected for quite awhile now? Will there be an Aperture 3.0 after 2.0? Will new cameras be supported in a timely fashion? As a professional, I just want some information. I don't want to be hung out to dry.iMac, Mac OS X (10.5.1)
"It's been a very difficult couple of months for my business because I committed my workflow so completely to Aperture."
With some risk mitigation in mind, for the future you might want to consider an alternative to keep your workflow - flowing.
"I wish more resources were devoted to the pro applications rather than iPod/iTunes/iPhone etc."
There may be a trend away from "pro" and pro-sumer applications. Take a look at what happened with iMovie.Macbook Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.8)
Maybe the RAW conversion is OS based and will be included with 10.5.2. Hope we don't have to wait for a new OS version every time we get a new camera model. That would be a very questionable model.MacPro 2.66 4 GB, Mac OS X (10.4.8)
I don't think we will be left high and dry by apple. As creatives we are the life-blood of the company, (and let's face it, most apple customers are creative... even if they don't earn their living from it...) I simply can't see apple turning away from that responsibility, it would do them irreparable harm. As to RAW updates, I'm sure that they will be released more quickly in the future, and in any case I suspect that more and more new cameras will use a standard. So ideally we will see less RAW formats rather than more. (or perhaps that is just wishful thinking!)MacBook + MacPro, Mac OS X (10.4.11)
Currently Being ModeratedJan 30, 2008 6:00 PM (in response to Matthew Weinreb)haha! lifeblood of the company? not any more. the people buying iPods are generating blinding amounds of reveue for Apple Inc.
also, you really won't see a reduction in RAW formats anytime soon. the D300's RAW format is different from the D200 in so many ways. the options for RAW recording on the D300 include:
Lossless Compressed RAW
all in either 12 or 14 bit depths. the D200 only had Compressed or Uncompressed RAW in 12 bits. and guess what, if Nikon can do it for the D400, they'll probably offer 16 bit recording with a selection of compression algorithms. they'll have to because Canon will already have that feature. the RAW format by nature is tied to the capabilities of the sensor chips and i don't see any of the camera manufacturers pulling back on pushing that envelope. Apple and Adobe both have their work cut out for them in the coming years with respect to digital photography.PowerMac G5 2.5GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.8), MacBook Pro 2.0GHz
One thing that I think is happening with Aperture, and partly responsible for it's delay... Aperture is moving in the direction of other Apple apps, and is going to become tightly integrated into the OS. Even though you can read RAW file on the latest camera models (currently a "plus" for Lightroom), you can not access your Lightroom images, in a fluid manner, from Mail, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, iPhoto, Print dialogues, etc....and in Lightroom you can not go the reverse direction either.
I believe that Apple's goal is to provide tighter integration of images, media, web, etc across all apps, and frankly that is a good, competitive, possibly proprietary, position that will be hard for competitors (Adobe and Microsoft) to overcome. When Windows users are kludging apps to work together, Apple will already be there.
Don't like Aperture... Fine... Go to Lightroom.
We (Aperture/Apple loyalists) will be more productive as we will be able to quickly deliver any media, from any app, and any file to any device. This is a definite competitive advantage in my world.MacPro 2.66 4 GB, Mac OS X (10.4.8)