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A word from Apple...

20719 Views 261 Replies Latest reply: Apr 19, 2008 9:48 AM by gbeberman RSS
  • Mr Haggis Calculating status...
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    Jan 31, 2008 2:11 AM (in response to Joe Schorr)
    Thanks for the update Joe. Good to hear that development is nearing completion.

    However.....I'd got the feeling more and more of the industry was going towards Lightroom and the number of new books on the market and training materials made me feel that perhaps I was missing something being an Aperture user - Yes the grass is always greener. So some weeks back I downloaded a trial of Lightroom and unfortunately I'm really enjoying using it. It's certainly much faster than Aperture on my 2GB Intel Core Duo iMac.

    So I decided to wait until PMA before abandoning Aperture as "surely" I thought Apple would release some type of update by then.

    So here we are PMA is underway and it would appear from your posting that you guys are not quite there yet.

    Such a shame as I think many will have already jumped ship.
    iMac Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 2GB Ram
  • tidysteve Level 4 Level 4 (2,975 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 4:18 AM (in response to Sarge_)
    this is totally uncalled for ...
    PM G5 Dual 2.0 4GB RAM - X800XT w/ 30" and 23" Cinema Displays, Mac OS X (10.5.1), PB G4 12" 1.5 1.25GB RAM - MBP C2D 17" 2.33 3GB RAM
  • dmoraATX Calculating status...
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    Jan 31, 2008 9:21 AM (in response to Joe Schorr)
    Good to know... My free trial of Lightroom is going to run out soon and my D300 is going to be quite sad having to go back to Photoshop CS1 Raw editor.
    Mac Pro C2D 2.66ghz x2, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 5gb ram 500gb HDD
  • Sarge_ Calculating status...
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    Jan 31, 2008 9:31 AM (in response to tidysteve)
    Dearest tidysteve,

    Did YOU invest over $50k in Apple products and countless hours adapting your workflow over the last last two years, in reliance on Apple's Aperture marketing demos and claims, only to be stymied by that same investment, never to see it perform as advertised?

    I should have bought Apple's stock instead. My bad.
    Mac Pro Octo Core, Mac OS X (10.5.1), MBpro 15/2.4, 3 C2D Mac Minis. 1 Mac Pro C2D, xRAID, iPhone, iPods
  • David Bogie Chq-1 Level 7 Level 7 (24,685 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:12 AM (in response to Joe Schorr)
    Cool. This is the first time I've ever seen an official response from an Apple employee on these forums. Apple released a toxic upgrade, Quicktime 7.4, that has broken tens of thousands of FCP installations and crippled our ability to render in Adobe After Effects for more than 10 minutes. We'd like to hear an official response, too.

    bogiesan
    2x2.66 Intel woohoo! and many more Macs, Mac OS X (10.4.11)
  • Sarge_ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:43 AM (in response to David Bogie Chq-1)
    Well, if they were smart they'd offer real transparency and delivery deadlines, the way other businesses do for their clients.

    Let me take a crack at a typical official response to your situation, David: "We're working on an update to your inquiry that will be really really great. You will love it. It will be released sometime in the future. Count on it. Thank you, that is all."

    The otherwise near-complete opacity into future releases and fixes is received as arrogance by many, aloofness by others, and simple incompetence by more. In Aperture's case, if they were to just come out and say "we're going to support the D3, the GX100 the (insert camera here) by (insert date here)" they would ease a lot of tension. It's not like their competitors (Abode et al) are going to be caught off guard by them promising to support cameras that the competition has been supporting for months, so why the opacity?

    The greatest human aversion is uncertainty, and by offering no transparency into such simple issues, they are cultivating tension with their customer base.

    Sign-posting expectations, giving transparency (within reason) and delivering on expectations created goes a long way toward creating understanding.

    - Sarge

    PS - while I'm a bit of an arse in my replies, I've also done more than most to convert PC users and sell them on Apple's platform. I've bought - and pushed the purchase of - many thousands of dollars on Apple's behalf. In not just sitting here on my hands, happily waiting to be spoon-fed whatever comes along, whenever it might arrive. I'm also, I hope, pushing Apple to make some changes for the better. I'm not a thin-skinned individual, and I've come by that honestly.
    Mac Pro Octo Core w/ Quadra FX 4500, 8GB RAM, quad fibre, 150GB WD10k, 3x 750GB, Mac OS X (10.5.1), MacProOcto-MacProC2D–MBpro15-MB13-3 C2D MacMinis–10TBxRAID-iPhone-4 iPods
  • Tom Aellis Calculating status...
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    Jan 31, 2008 10:40 AM (in response to Sarge_)
    I think a lot of peeps here know my handle and my heat with Aperture.

    A great many of you told me how great it was for "their" workflow etc.....
    My response was Wait.....

    Now, I see so many of these members that were throwing bricks at me for letting out my disapointment with the product, and those I told to wait, it'll come, gripping after the guy, Joe, gave us what a lot of us were asking for. Just a word.

    It think it's time for each one of us to at least let him come thru with his post and follow up with a release or we should just move on.

    I'm pretty sure by now that Apple got the message.
    Mac OS X (10.4.9), AE 802.11n -Few ATV's
  • Level 6 Level 6 (11,035 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 11:14 AM (in response to Sarge_)
    Hey Sarge,
    FYI - I saw this in the Lightroom forum...

    "Yeah with the Apple Aperture team sitting on their backsides, there is time for LR v2 to get more polished...

    They are very close to a mutiny over on the Aperture discussion boards..."
    iMac Intel Core 2 Duo 2.8 Extreme 24", Mac OS X (10.5.1), 4GB RAM
  • Mitch Aunger Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 11:37 AM (in response to Merged Content 1)
    I don't believe that a few people posting unhappiness in this forum constitutes a mutiny.

    I for one (not that my vote counts for more than one vote) am quite happy with Aperture and am willing to wait for the next release.
    24" iMac 2.8, Mac OS X (10.5.1), iPhone and some newtons that i don't use any more :(
  • Network 23 Level 6 Level 6 (11,500 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 12:09 PM (in response to Rich Hayhurst)
    Rich Hayhurst wrote:
    Aperture...is going to become tightly integrated into the OS. Even though you can read RAW file on the latest camera models (currently a "plus" for Lightroom), you can not access your Lightroom images, in a fluid manner, from Mail, Pages, Numbers, Keynote, iPhoto, Print dialogues, etc....and in Lightroom you can not go the reverse direction either.


    Can you be more specific about that? I just dragged a photo straight from the Lightroom grid to iPhoto and it imported it. I do this kind of thing all the time. I can drag straight from the Lightroom grid to any Open dialog of any app that supports the file format. And I can drag images from anywhere into Lightroom and it will import them.

    I wasn't even doing anything special for Lightroom, I was just doing what I expect to be possible between any two apps on the Mac with drag and drop, and it was doable.
    PowerBook G4 15" Aluminum and Mac Pro, Mac OS X (10.4.11)
  • Mitch Aunger Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 12:26 PM (in response to Network 23)
    Well, from the sound of it (i don't use LR), if you drag and image from LR to iPhoto and "import it", you now have 2 copies of that image. With Aperture and all the other applications, you only have 1 image. I can use an image that is managed by Aperture in iPhoto and not end up with duplicates all over my drive.

    All Aperture images are known to the other applications... i can open iDVD and use the media navigator to view my Aperture images without having Aperture open. All the applications are just simply aware of all of my images.

    That's what is meant by integration.

    What you're doing is copy/paste and duplicating.
    24" iMac 2.8, Mac OS X (10.5.1), iPhone and some newtons that i don't use any more :(
  • Sarge_ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Jan 31, 2008 12:39 PM (in response to Mitch Aunger)
    Mitch Aunger wrote:
    Well, from the sound of it (i don't use LR), if you drag and image from LR to iPhoto and "import it", you now have 2 copies of that image. With Aperture and all the other applications, you only have 1 image. I can use an image that is managed by Aperture in iPhoto and not end up with duplicates all over my drive.

    All Aperture images are known to the other applications... i can open iDVD and use the media navigator to view my Aperture images without having Aperture open. All the applications are just simply aware of all of my images.

    That's what is meant by integration.

    What you're doing is copy/paste and duplicating.


    You are correct, and I agree there is value in that.

    It does not, however, do anything to address the often-sluggish performance of Aperture, nor does it address why Apple can't include RAW support for important new cameras in a timely manner, where every other software provider CAN with apparent ease.

    They need to reassess their programming and hardware tasking on the performance side, and produce RAW plist updates WITHOUT waiting months between major OS updates.

    The latter, especially, is very easy to do, and they are felony stupid if they can't make that happen.
    Mac Pro Octo Core w/ Quadra FX 4500, 8GB RAM, quad fibre, 150GB WD10k, 3x 750GB, Mac OS X (10.5.1), MacProOcto-MacProC2D–MBpro15-MB13-3 C2D MacMinis–10TBxRAID-iPhone-4 iPods
  • Mitch Aunger Level 1 Level 1 (65 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 31, 2008 12:48 PM (in response to Sarge_)
    "The latter, especially, is very easy to do, and they are felony stupid if they can't make that happen."

    I am a programmer but i'm not a developer for the internals of OS X - and i dare not insult someone for something i know nothing about... if you are so knowledgeable and indeed know it is so darn simple, why don't you quit throwing stones and offer to help them instead of insulting them at every turn?
    24" iMac 2.8, Mac OS X (10.5.1), iPhone and some newtons that i don't use any more :(
  • Proggie Level 4 Level 4 (1,300 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 31, 2008 1:16 PM (in response to Mitch Aunger)
    I don't know how Lightroom does it, and I don't have the latest iLife apps so not sure if my thoughts are correct either, but I think that the iLife apps only use and are aware of the previews that Aperture generated. None of the apps as far as I know render the RAWs on the fly. With RAW being part of the OS, I don't see why the iApps can't render those RAWs on the fly so that you can benefit from the best possible image in all circumstances. There should still be an option to use the preview images, but I think certain projects (for example ordering a book through iPhoto) should utilize the best possible version, not a scaled down preview (and no, I don't want to generate previews at maximum quality/size). So hopefully the next version of Aperture/OS/iLife apps let us do things like this.

    Back on topic, I appreciate Joe's message and eagerly await the next version of Aperture. I'm not jumping ship even though I find Aperture to be slower and missing some features. I think it's still much better than Lightroom overall and am very happy with it. Don't know how I lived without it

    Also I held off buying my Canon 40D knowing that it was not supported, until the support came. I don't understand why a professional would jump the gun and invest in a new camera before it was supported in their workflow that worked with their existing gear. Sure you want to be on the cutting edge and want to provide better quality images to your customers by utilizing advanced new features of the new gear, but you're not going to lose a job just because you're behind in latest technology by 2 or 3 months. But maybe that's why I'm not a pro.
    PowerBook G4 1.5GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 2GB RAM
  • Sarge_ Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Jan 31, 2008 1:42 PM (in response to Proggie)
    Proggie,

    Maybe you don't understand the root of Aperture, but the idea is that the actual RAW file is not manipulated per se, rather Aperture writes a set of instructions based on your manipulation of the file that serve as commands for 'how to present the file'. It thereby creates a 'preview', the quality of which you have some control over via Aperture preferences.

    You can then output the 'instructions' to a formally exported file in any variety of formats, jpeg being the most common, again at the quality/size of your choosing. The only reason to do that is for purposes of emailing, uploading to the internet, etc.

    If you are creating a photobook, I believe that can be done directly in Aperture but even so there may be differing options, I've never done that.

    Regardless, the only way to keep things consistent would be for iPhoto to use the same set of manipulations used by Aperture. So iPhoto uses the previews, as a sort of proxy to that scenario.
    Mac Pro Octo Core w/ Quadra FX 4500, 8GB RAM, quad fibre, 150GB WD10k, 3x 750GB, Mac OS X (10.5.1), MacProOcto-MacProC2D–MBpro15-MB13-3 C2D MacMinis–10TBxRAID-iPhone-4 iPods
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