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rJames
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Q: I found a big bug

Supposed to be humorous to borrow the title...
But it is a catastrophic bug as far as I am concerned.

Space Designer misfunctions when a software instrument uses internal panning. It does recognize where the signal is coming from (far L, far R or any degree in between) but it delivers a thin mono signal as output from the reverb.

When you have a mono instrument (or have a stereo instrument panned center), AND THEN pan using the channel strip, Space Designer delivers a wide stereo reverb as it should in both cases.

So, it is handling the panned signal from a stereo source different than a channel strip pan.

This means that my orchestral instruments which are panned within Kontakt are not being returned throughout the room. Whether or not they are accurate stereo representations of how the room would respond is not the issue.

My test was using Ultrabeat with some taiko drums panned hard left and hard right sent to Space Designer on a buss.

When you center the taiko drum within Ultrabeat and then pan the channel strip, the reverb is strong on the panned side but also secondarily strong on the opposite (and mid) side.

When you pan the taiko within Ultrabeat, (and keep the channel strip panned in the center) the reverb comes from only one side. There should at least be a fake response throughout the room.

If the reverb came only from the center I would understand. But Space designer is recognizing where the signal is panned but is not replying with reverb throughout the room.

Again, not really concerned whether or not it is a discrete circle but just that there should be a lower volume reverb coming from throughout the room as it does with channel panning.

BTW the other Logic verbs behave in a similar fashion.

MacPro, Mac OS X (10.5.2), Logic 8.01

Posted on Mar 26, 2008 11:52 AM

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rJames

Q: I found a big bug

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  • by Electronathan,

    Electronathan Electronathan Mar 26, 2008 12:36 PM in response to rJames
    Level 1 (65 points)
    Mar 26, 2008 12:36 PM in response to rJames
    If I'm following you correctly this isn't a bug or an error on Space Designer's part. I'm guessing you're experiment used a synthesized IR vs an sampled IR? Both perhaps? The Synthesized IRs have an advantage over the sampled IRs in regard to the math involved.
    I'm messing around with UB & SD right now too. the instrument strip is set to post pan on the bus to SD and there is nothing out of the ordinary happening with that. Panning from UB parts produces the same result too. But there is nothing buggy going on - it all mathematically makes sense to me.
    The stereo input control on SD is meant to resolve the issues of hard left/right scenairos, esp. on sampled IRs.
    If your signal coming in to SD is 1 x IR on the right channel you get convoluted goodness. if you have 0 x IR on the left... uh-oh 0 x ANYTHING still equals 0 - so no signal there. The synthesized IR has more of a dynamic approach to handling this math however.

    Dang! Gotta run. Let's talk more later

  • by John Buehler,

    John Buehler John Buehler Mar 26, 2008 3:08 PM in response to rJames
    Level 2 (385 points)
    Mar 26, 2008 3:08 PM in response to rJames
    Here's what I know from making my own impulses. There are 2 ways to make a stereo impulse, stereo, and true stereo. True stereo is actually a 4 channel recording, with the sound from a speaker on the left captured with both left and right mics, then the sound from a speaker on the right captured with the left and right mics. A stereo impulse assumes a single sound source, like a speaker in the middle, and is captured only once with both left and right mics. The result when panning into a regular stereo impulse is exactly as you describe, if you pan to the left, no sound from the right output of SD. With a True stereo impulse, you get the sound out of the right channel of SD, as one would expect. I no longer do regular stereo impulses for this reason, even if there is a singular sound source. Try your test with different reverbs, you will see the behavior change based on the impulse.