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D300 and RAW color in Aperture 2

2996 Views 27 Replies Latest reply: May 6, 2008 4:58 AM by DLScreative RSS
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Michael De Lazzer Calculating status...
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Feb 18, 2008 3:21 PM
I just got my new D300, and ran it through its first shoot Saturday. When I went to import into Aperture 2, the processed files were nasty washed versions of their NEF parents. I opened Capture NX and all of the color was there in the NEF file. I opened Lightroom, and everything looked fine, rich saturated images. In Aperture the color was all washed out.

The only thing I can think of is that Aperture is running in a different color space than sRGB, and whatever the color space that the program is working in is washing the NEF files color away. But I couldn't find a menu setting for color space, so I don't know if that's true. Or the program imposes limits on crazy color saturation (no program should ever do this).

Any ideas? Anyone else experiencing this? I finished the job in Lightroom without a problem (great color tools, I was genuinely impressed), so I'm wondering if my Aperture days are numbered.
Dual 2Ghz PowerMac G5, Intel PowerBook Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.4.9), 3.5TB XServe RAID, Buncha video stuff...
  • Adsy Calculating status...
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    Feb 18, 2008 4:51 PM (in response to Michael De Lazzer)
    I don't understand how it can be a colour space issue. Aperture looks at the raw data. Do you have it set to softproof in another colour space by any chance?

    I don't have a D300 and haven't experienced your problem.
    MacBook C2D 2.0GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 2GB/120
  • DP Roberts Calculating status...
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    Feb 18, 2008 5:17 PM (in response to Michael De Lazzer)
    RAW files don't have a color space--at least not in the way you're used to. You must have on-screen proofing on, and set to Adobe RBG. Try turning on-screen proofing off, or setting the on-screen proofing to use sRGB.

    Option-Shift-p toggles the on-screen proofing on/off. Or look at the bottom of the "View" menu.
    G5 Quad w/7800, 6GB, Mac OS X (10.5.2)
  • Zembla Calculating status...
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    Mar 31, 2008 2:45 PM (in response to Michael De Lazzer)
    Well, at least you can import your raw files, I still can't I don't see any raw files in Aperture from any of my cards... weird...
  • Moniker Calculating status...
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    Apr 10, 2008 8:37 AM (in response to Michael De Lazzer)
    Please Help...
    I have the same issues since the new update. I do most of my work in camera. Why is Aperture washing out my images and dulling the saturation?
    15'inch 1.25GHZ Powerbook, Mac OS X (10.4.9), 2GB SDRAM Final Cut Pro 5.14
  • William Lloyd Level 6 Level 6 (19,195 points)
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    Apr 10, 2008 8:56 AM (in response to Michael De Lazzer)
    Color space doesn't matter. RAW files don't have a color space. sRGB or Adobe RGB is only relevant if the camera produces JPEGs directly.

    It's not the issue here.
    8-Core Mac Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.2)
  • Moniker Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 10, 2008 9:06 AM (in response to William Lloyd)
    Mr. Lloyd I'm not debating the color space issue. I just want some advice to get exactly what I shot into Aperture. I have used Aperture since the beginning and have never seen this before. Upon the initial import the images shown where exactly the color I shot them in. Once the import was finished all of the images in that import started to wash out and dull in saturation.
    15'inch 1.25GHZ Powerbook, Mac OS X (10.4.9), 2GB SDRAM Final Cut Pro 5.14
  • William Lloyd Level 6 Level 6 (19,195 points)
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    Apr 10, 2008 9:27 AM (in response to Moniker)
    It's likely the initial color is the JPEG preview that the camera generates. This will later change, typically to something more saturated, which is Aperture's render of the RAW data.

    You will not get an exact match of what the preview looks like and what Aperture generates. The only way to do that is to use Nikon's software, as only they can read the proprietary "develop" settings that are baked into the picture. Aperture's render will differ slightly. This is also an issue with all 3rd party (non-camera-vendor) RAW converters, for example Lightroom, Capture One, and Bibble.
    8-Core Mac Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.2)
  • Moniker Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 10, 2008 9:54 AM (in response to William Lloyd)
    Appreciate your replies and the information.
    15'inch 1.25GHZ Powerbook, Mac OS X (10.4.9), 2GB SDRAM Final Cut Pro 5.14
  • atgj Calculating status...
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    Apr 23, 2008 8:37 AM (in response to Moniker)
    I am having exactly the opposite problem here and it is most confusing!

    I normally shoot RAW and I had been planning to use Aperture as my RAW conversion tool of choice when I noticed that Aperture does not deal properly with Chromatic Aberration on files from my Nikon D300. (I posted on this on the forum and it was interesting that we did not hear back from Appple on this).

    So today I shot JPEG's for a quick edit to file to the client tonight and all the images are over saturated! I pulled up the same file on the same screen in Photoshop, put them side by side and the image looks fine in PS and rubbish in Aperture! I checked the image in Capture NX and also in Preview - all the colour match apart from in Aperture. What is going on? Aperture seems to have no colour management option as part of its workflow. I have checked the "preferences" and there is nothing there - I have no control over my image! Its a shocker! What do I do?

    Again, if Apple are really planning to pitch this software at the pro market, they need to do some serious work on their colour management and RAW conversion. These are the bedrock of pro shooting these days and with out them, Aperture is just another archiving software. I have not tried Lightroom, but I wonder if this will fare any better?

    Andy
    MacBook, Mac OS X (10.4.9)
  • KBeat Level 3 Level 3 (790 points)
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    Apr 23, 2008 8:50 AM (in response to atgj)
    You wont' get a reply from Apple in these forums. These are user forums, and are not monitored by Apple (although on rare occasion Joe Schorr has dropped in).

    Aperture handles color management just fine. When working with RAW, there isn't a color space like people are used to from years of working with TIFF & JPEGs in Photoshop. If you want to see what the image will look like with a specific color space, and your monitor is properly calibrated, you can turn on Proofing Profiles and select from a huge variety of icc profiles (AdobeRGB, sRGB, etc.).

    When outputting from Aperture to a printer, you can designate the icc profile. All of this is good color management. It's not the same as working in a color space like you do with Photoshop, but that's because it's not relevant to RAW.

    Now, the 2.0 RAW conversion of your Nikon images is another matter, and you may be displeased with the conversion. That's not, practically speaking, color management. Some people prefer Aperture's RAW conversion to Adobe's Camera RAW, some don't. Some prefer the conversion from the Nikon or Canon software. Regardless, it's a software interpretation of the RAW data, and there are going to be differences from application to application. Again, this is not "color management."
    MacBook Pro Santa Rosa 2.4 ghz, 4/250 GB, 23" Cinema HD, Mac OS X (10.5.2), iPhone 8 GB, iPod Nano 8 GB (2nd Gen), AppleTV 160 GB
  • William Lloyd Level 6 Level 6 (19,195 points)
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    Apr 23, 2008 8:55 AM (in response to atgj)
    Aperture doesn't have chromatic aberration controls at this time. "Deal with properly" is a bit of a mis-characterization... if you're comparing it to Nikon's software that's a bit different as Nikon's software deals specifically to CA with Nikon lenses on Nikon cameras... it's tough for software like Aperture that works with all cameras to work the same way (and automatically). Maybe ask Nikon to make that stuff generally available and not protected

    As far as the excess saturation with JPEG files... any chance you have onscreen proofing turned on in Aperture? Double check that it's not enabled. You may be displaying in a squashed color space.

    Aperture's color management and RAW conversion are quite good in my experience... I've looked at Canon's software, at Lightroom, at Adobe Camera RAW (these two are really the same), and at Aperture, and IMO Aperture 2.0's conversion is the best of the lot. I don't have a Nikon camera so I don't use Nikon's software. LR and ACR are pretty bad in the yellow/orange/red spectrum with their default configurations.
    8-Core Mac Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.2)
  • atgj Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    Apr 23, 2008 9:20 AM (in response to William Lloyd)
    Not sure I am feeling too sorry for Apple in its quest to satisfy people who use different brands of camera with their software. I might do if they had to accommodate some no name camera brand, but they should be able to deal with Nikon files properly!

    As for NBeat's comments - yes, both my screens are properly profiled using an EyeOne, so why does the same image appear different on the same screen at the same time? My standard profile in PS is Adobe 1998. The soft profile setting in Aperture in Adobe 1998 - the images are completely different...

    And as for shooting RAW, Adobe 1998 colour space is still assigned on the camera when shooting RAW, is this not applied to the file?

    How come this is not about colour management?
    MacBook, Mac OS X (10.4.9)
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