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Q: PowerBook 190/190cs Won't Find OS

Howdy everyone. I've had this problem with my brother's PowerBook 190 forever, and I've never been able to figure it out. The problem is that it won't find any OS even when the hard drive is in and the PowerBook 190 enabler is in the right place (I think). The PowerBook's OS (7.5) was seriously messed up when my brother bought it—it included two operating systems; one that seemed more in tact than the other, but neither fully working or complete. The PowerBook was limited to what it could do for this reason. My brother and I decided to move the PowerBook 190 enabler over to the more complete-looking OS, and it began starting up with a floppy disk in the center and a question mark. Even after restoring the hard drive to the way it was before we messed with it, the PowerBook still refuses to find an OS. I've tried everything to reinstall the OS through my MacBook Pro, my PowerBook Titanium, my Lombard PowerBook, and nothing will come of the extensive effort I've put into fixing the 190.
Strangely, both my brother and I have never been able to figure out exactly what PowerBook it is, though. It has a "PowerBook 190" plaque on the display, but the screen itself is in color, and it's 10.4" instead of 9.5" (the same size as a 190cs). We don't know what the guy did to the computer, but maybe it has something to do with why the OS can't be found. We tried buying a floppy disc drive to install OS 7 again on the PowerBook, but not only did the floppy drive die right away, we could never find PowerBook 190 OS 7 install discs.
Does anyone know why the PowerBook won't find an OS? Does anyone know if there's a way to force another computer's OS install discs to work? Does anyone know if buying another floppy drive from eBay would help at all to solve these problems? Does anyone know if the PowerBook enabler is supposed to go in the System folder? As far as I know, the PowerBook 190 has very few keyboard startup commands; it's not like I can hit C as it starts up to install an OS from a floppy.

P.S. I've been doing all the work on the hard drive by extracting it from the 190 and connecting it up with a USB external hard drive; just so you know.

Here's a picture of the problem:
http://s714.photobucket.com/albums/ww142/tommyjames337/?action=view&current=DSC_ 0389.jpg

I will continue to try working on it—maybe it needs a 190cs enabler?

667Mhz DVI TiBook & 2Ghz MacBook 1GB RAM, Mac OS X (10.4.9),  eMac,  MacBook (Black),  PowerBook Titanium 667Mhz DVI

Posted on Apr 3, 2009 9:23 AM

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Q: PowerBook 190/190cs Won't Find OS

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  • by adsfushi72,Helpful

    adsfushi72 adsfushi72 Apr 3, 2009 10:03 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 4 (1,115 points)
    Apr 3, 2009 10:03 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Your PowerBook does sound like the 190cs. The 190cs has a color 10.4" screen.

    Option-Apple-Shift-Delete will bypass the normal startup disk.

    System enablers must be in the System Folder. The PowerBook 190 requires the PowerBook 5300/190 Enabler v1.1
    You can find that here:
    http://download.info.apple.com/AppleSupport_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-North_American/Macintosh/System/Olde r_System/SystemEnablers/

    The 190cs came with System 7.5.2, so I imagine the minimum OS it can run is 7.5.2.

    You can try downloading the System 7.5.3 disk images. These are not machine specific.
    They can be found here:
    http://download.info.apple.com/AppleSupport_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English-International/Macintosh/System/Full_ Installs/System_7.5_Version7.5.3/

    Have you tried re-blessing the System Folder?
  • by jpl,Helpful

    jpl jpl Apr 3, 2009 10:16 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Apr 3, 2009 10:16 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Panther,

    The PB190 came in two versions...a PB190 with 9.5" b&w display and a PB190cs with a 10.4" dual-scan, passive-matrix display. The minimum OS required is OS 7.5.2 with the Powerbook 5300/190 Enabler v1.1.

    A few suggestions:

    -At least the flashing '?' suggests the 190 has passed the startup hardware self-test.

    -You can force a boot to the floppy drive by pressing the 'delete-option-command-shift' keys during startup.

    A failure to boot to the internal HD can have many causes:

    1. corrupted PRAM can prevent a boot to an alternate volume plus it can prevent a boot to the internal HD:
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238

    2. damaged or missing or incorrect OS;

    3. damaged HD driver;

    4. damaged HD formatting;

    5. failed HD.

    How do you know the floppy drive failed? If you have an incorrect OS version on the floppy disk and/or the PRAM is corrupted, the drive may appear to be non-functional.

    In order to get this 190 up and running you need a known-good bootable floppy to try in the 190 after resetting the PRAM. This could be a floppy with the original OS 7.5.2 with the Enabler or 7.5.3 or 7.6.x or 8.0 or the special 8.1. You either have to find an original floppy (came with the 190 or as part of a retail OS package) or create a bootable floppy on a Mac that has a floppy drive.

    Sorry...I have to take a short break. If you have access to a floppy drive Mac, please describe. There are several other workarounds which I can relate and I will be back shortly and/or someone else may reply.
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Apr 3, 2009 3:01 PM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Apr 3, 2009 3:01 PM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    P.S. I've been doing all the work on the hard drive by extracting it from the 190 and connecting it up with a USB external hard drive; just so you know.


    This could be part of the problem. First of all, please note that the hard disk must be formatted Standard (HFS), not Extended (HFS+), for anything lower than Mac OS 8.1. Secondly, it may be difficult or impossible to "bless" the system folder this way.

    As jpl has indicated, you will need a bootable floppy to begin with.

    The Disk Tools PPC (here) will work with a PowerBook 190(cs), even though that machine does not have a PowerPC processor. Unfortunately, access to a Macintosh computer with an appropriate (built-in) floppy drive will be needed in order to create a properly sector-copied disk. Use the Make a Floppy command in the Utilities menu of Disk Copy 6.3.3 for this.

    Alternatively, the At Ease-IDE Utility Disk (here) can be used. Since this very download has been made available in an older Disk Copy disk image format, it is even possible to create a bootable floppy on a Windows PC via a special technique.

    If the PB 190(cs) floppy drive in fact is faulty, the computer can be started from an external SCSI drive, or from a Mac-(re)formatted CompactFlash card (in an inexpensive PC Card adapter for CF).

    Jan
  • by Panther Mail & .Mac,

    Panther Mail & .Mac Panther Mail & .Mac Apr 4, 2009 11:53 AM in response to jpl
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Apr 4, 2009 11:53 AM in response to jpl
    Howdy!
    I know the floppy drive is dead because its little green light used to light up upon start up, but it stopped doing that, and it never reads disks and it's impossible to eject any of them without a paperclip. I accidentally mis-typed at the beginning. My brother and I didn't get the floppy drive to fix the computer. We got one in hopes of being able to transfer files to the otherwise secluded machine (We can't give it internet, or USB), so we hoped a floppy drive would work. At that time, the drive did work when we got it. Yet, after a short while it stopped working, and the OS pooped out. I'll double-check the format of the hard drive, and I'll try a bunch of the stuff you guys have suggested. I'm busy helping to set up a friend's new iMac right now, so I'll be on the problem soon and I'll keep you guys posted. Thanks so much for all of the help. Hopefully I'll be able to find an internal floppy drive for my Lombard PowerBook so I do have a floppy-drive Mac. I'll need to get a new drive for my brother's 190, too. I really appreciate everything!

    By the way: is there any place to download the PowerBook 190cs enabler just in case that's what the computer's looking for and not the 5300/190 enabler. I do have the 5300/190 enabler as it came with the computer, but I'd like to see if there's one for the 190cs. If it uses the same one than never mind. Thanks!
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Apr 4, 2009 3:13 PM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Apr 4, 2009 3:13 PM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    is there any place to download the PowerBook 190cs enabler just in case that's what the computer's looking for and not the 5300/190 enabler. I do have the 5300/190 enabler as it came with the computer, but I'd like to see if there's one for the 190cs.


    There is only one enabler. If I remember correctly, that enabler was used for the original System 7.5.2 and nothing else. Later system software versions do not require an enabler.

    If you can download/transfer files to your Lombard PowerBook, you may be able to use that computer to copy/install an appropriate system folder for the PowerBook 190cs onto a CompactFlash card. Before you begin, the CompactFlash card has to be reformatted (initialised) for Mac (Standard = HFS). The necessary adapter may look something like this. It would probably be a good idea to use Mac OS 8.6 to 9.x on the Lombard. The adapter can then be moved to the PB 190cs, where you can try to boot the computer from the CompactFlash card.

    Jan
  • by Panther Mail & .Mac,

    Panther Mail & .Mac Panther Mail & .Mac Apr 10, 2009 7:37 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Apr 10, 2009 7:37 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Howdy everyone!
    Very exciting news came up about the PowerBook 190. I don't know why it didn't hit me before, but I remembered that a friend of mine has a PowerBook 190cs, and I was able to borrow it. I've just looked at the hard drives and the computers. When I put her PowerBook 190cs hard drive in my brother's 190, it works great! So, we're on a role without the complexity of OS discs. I want to make an exact replica of her hard drive to mine, but I'm having a little trouble doing it and making the 190 work. The only way I can do it without buying anything is by using the external HD casing that I have and making a disk image with Disk Utility of it. I've tried it already, but it didn't work. It may have something to do with the format I'm making my drive. Could someone provide the appropriate steps to:
    1) Make an image on my computer of my friend's HD
    2) Restore my HD to match hers identically by using the image

    Thanks so much. I'm going to devise new ways to figure this out as I await a reply. You guys are awesome!
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Apr 10, 2009 8:55 PM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Apr 10, 2009 8:55 PM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Instead of trying to clone the hard disk (which would require special software anyway), you could use the fully functional PowerBook 190cs to create a bootable Disk Tools PPC or At Ease-IDE Utility Disk (see my earlier message). You could also prepare a set of System 7.5.3 files on 1.44 MB Mac-formatted diskettes (nineteen files for the North American English version).

    It should now be possible to move the hard drive from your brother's PowerBook to your friend's computer (alternatively, move the floppy drive from your friend's PB 190cs to your brother's computer). Next, you could try to start the computer from one of the aforementioned bootable floppies. This should allow you to inspect the contents of the hard disk, and possibly move any misplaced files.

    If necessary, you may want to reformat the problematic hard disk (this will erase everything on the disk). A system folder drag-copied from one of the startup floppies to the empty hard disk can often be used as a temporary solution, in order to free the floppy drive for subsequent transfers. You could then install a full System 7.5.3.

    Once both computers have full operating systems, it is not difficult to use file sharing for additional file transfers (via a standard MiniDIN-8M to MiniDIN-8M Mac serial printer cable between the printer ports).

    I still think that a PC Card adapter for CompactFlash and a CF card would be an easier way (can be used in both computers).

    Jan
  • by Jan Hedlund,Solvedanswer

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Apr 11, 2009 2:56 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Apr 11, 2009 2:56 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    I should add that the (nineteen) downloadable System 7.5.3 files can be drag-copied to 1.44 MB floppies. There is no need for a special utility in this very case. The files can then be copied to the destination hard disk as they are; an appropriate version (for example, 4.0.1 or 5.5) of StuffIt Expander would be required there for the decoding of the .bin = MacBinary. Place the decoded files (one .smi and eighteen .part) in a common folder. These files together constitute one large disk image. One can mount the entire image by double-clicking on the first (.smi) file. The installer will be found in the mounted image.

    BTW, if of interest, detailed technical information about the PowerBook 190 can be found here. A manual has been made available for download here.

    Jan
  • by Panther Mail & .Mac,

    Panther Mail & .Mac Panther Mail & .Mac Apr 11, 2009 7:04 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Apr 11, 2009 7:04 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Hi Jan,
    Could you tell me how to copy the files to the destination hard drive? Do you mean by using the external hard drive thing I have? 'Cause there'd be no point in using floppy disks if all I was going to do was copy the files to the hard drive. I would think it'd be less of a hassle, and much quicker to use the hard drive enclosure instead of floppies. Thanks!

    Tommy
    P.S. Should I copy the images to the floppy from OS X? (I also have a couple external USB floppy drives).
  • by Panther Mail & .Mac,

    Panther Mail & .Mac Panther Mail & .Mac Apr 11, 2009 11:32 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Apr 11, 2009 11:32 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Everyone,
    The task at hand has been completed finally. I was able to copy the 7.5.3 installer components to the hard drive with my external hard drive casing, and everything went swell from there. Thanks, everyone for putting up with me. I spent a long time trying to figure out how to fix it, and the PowerBook is finally up and running. Now my next challenge is to get the VST Iomega Zip drive to work. (I have the driver and all the components, and the drive works great, but the computer is not recognizing the drive).
    My brother is very happy. He's playing Super Maze Wars on it as I type!
    I really appreciate everything.

    Tommy
    P.S. If anyone really does have an idea about the drive not being recognized, I'd love to hear it. Zip can pretty pretty efficient and convenient. Thanks!
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Apr 12, 2009 10:40 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Apr 12, 2009 10:40 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Tommy,

    I used to run a SCSI Zip drive (100MB) off my PB1400 and over time assembled some troubleshooting steps for this hardware.

    1. Is the termination switch on the back of the Zip drive set to 'ON'? (Use only this one device while troubleshooting.)
    2. Is the HDI-30 SCSI system cable a known-good cable? If using an HDI-30 SCSI adapter, be very sure it is good...they can be cranky.
    3. Are you following the correct startup procedure? All power off > connect SCSI cable and Zip to powerbook > turn on Zip drive > turn on powerbook; shutdown is the reverse order. Never make any hardware changes with any power on...you could damage the SCSI bus.
    4. Update the driver on the internal HD using Apple's Drive Setup utility.
    5. Reset the PRAM if necessary:
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238
    6. Following the correct startup procedure, try this Iomega suggestion:
    (1) Turn off System Extensions by holding down the Shift key while starting the computer. If the computer completes startup with extensions off, go to step 2.
    (2) Try loading the Iomega Driver manually by double-clicking on the Iomega Guest utility. If the Guest program installs the Driver successfully, the problem is probably due to a conflict with a non-Apple or third party control panel or extension.
    7. Here is a general SCSI-use article:
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13611
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Apr 12, 2009 10:56 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Apr 12, 2009 10:56 AM in response to Panther Mail & .Mac
    Tommy,

    Just a quick followup...

    As with an optical drive, there will be no icon of the Zip drive on your desktop until a Zip disk mounts.

    If you wish to eliminate any extension conflicts, go to Apple > Control Panels > Extension Manager, then create a custom extension set from the menu bar. Name it "Zip only" if you wish, then uncheck all extensions and control panels except the Iomega Zip extension. Save the custom set, restart and test.