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Q: Powerbook 5300c & booting from CF cards (PCMCIA & as IDE drive)
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Jun 21, 2009 11:30 PMby Niteshooter,Hmmm I have a funny feeling you can't boot your 5300 from a CF card. I've done system installations from them but for some reason I seem to recall they can't be booted from one.
In terms of speed, I ran a CF card to ZIF adaptor in my Acer Aspire One and found it terribly slow. Mainly the write speeds vs read. So much so that I wound up pulling the thing and reinstalling the SSD drive it came with. So it might just be the nature of CF cards in general....
Maybe wait a couple of years for SSD to come down in price? -
Jun 22, 2009 8:55 AMby A H1,many web sites, including this one, shows that 5300 can be booted from CF... and the apple web site (centered for PB 500 series, but that's essentially same as 5300 except for the CPU) also states that PCMCIA is scanned during bootup, so if it detects a working system folder, it should boot from it... (and many others seem to report using CF card as a backup drive...)
http://www.thisoldmac.ca/wordpress/2008/09/13/late-night-powerbook-5300ce-flash- hard-drive/
http://support.apple.com/kb/TA21623?viewlocale=en_US#faq8
just confused why it won't work... it's entirely possible that my particular one has a bad hardware somewhere, or it's just picky about any particular CF card for this to work...
I'm not really looking for speed boost... no matter what, it won't be any worse than its stock 500Mb noisy and slow internal! (if I want speed, running off the external SCSI Quantum Fireball gives it a pretty decent boost, but.. noisier...) -
Jun 22, 2009 4:54 PMby Jan Hedlund,HelpfulHi,
As you have noticed, it is possible to boot a PowerBook 5300c from a CompactFlash card in an appropriate PC Card adapter for CF.
If this does not work every time, there is probably a problem with the hardware. You may want to try an alternative (plain) CF card with a relatively limited capacity. You may also want to test another PC Card adapter (perhaps something like this example). Furthermore, hold down the four keys Command(Apple) + Option(Alt) + Shift + Delete(Backspace) when booting to the CF card, if the internal hard drive is active and contains a valid system.
If nothing else works, a system folder installed by the downloadable System 7.5.3 (e.g., the North American English version here) installer is OK for this purpose. In this case, a Standard (HFS) formatting is required for the CF card.
Jan -
Jun 22, 2009 8:45 PMby Niteshooter,Ok, I pulled out my 5300cs and gave it a whirl.
Using a Kingston 512mb CF card with PCMCIA reader I did a fresh install of OS 8 on the hard drive,
then formatted the CF card using the tools from the OS 8 CD and did a fresh install of the OS on the CF card.
Booting from HD no problem, runs fine. Booting exact same system from CF card replicates your system bus error. Booting with extensions off worked once. Tried a second time and no luck.
Noticed that the PRAM battery on the 5300 is dead. Installed a different main battery that holds a small charge.
Went on to OS 8.5. Did a clean system install from the CD to the hard drive. The formatted a new Kingston 512mb CF card in the 5300. Installed OS 8.5 from the CD.
Booted up first from the hard drive to make sure the system was compatible. No problem, also set the date and time. Restarted the PowerBook with the CF card and OS 8.5.
Boots up fine, my best guess is to check your PRAM. Is your PRAM battery and/or main battery dead?
Rest of the setup is the base installation that the CD runs, VM is ON, Disk Cache is Default, RAM disk is OFF. I have 24M of real memory with 1M of VM.
OS is using up 9.2MB with 15.5MB free. Fired up a copy of PS 3 that I installed on the CF and it worked and wasn't too slow either.
That CF to ATA adaptor would probably be the path of least resistance in some ways as I have used something similar in an AA1 and it worked ok.
Oddly enough the read/write speed of the CF card isn't as bad as I was expecting. Should probably try a larger CF card and other OS but this one will work.
Kevin -
Jun 22, 2009 9:53 PMby A H1,checking PRAM battery sounds like a good advice. I'll have to do that. It might take time for me to get a replacement.
The main battery is very weak, so I've only been working off the AC power (I have it taped onto it, so it won't accidentally be pulled out). do I need the main battery working even if I'm working straight off of AC power? I've been runnning it with the battery compartment empty, mainly from the fear of the "combusting battery" history of this model... wanted to miminize any electrical overheat/fire on this machine. I'll try installing the battery and see if it makes any difference.
after you replaced the PRAM battery, were you able to boot off of anything lower than 8.5?
I think I have a 512M card somewhere. I'll try that. (tried 1G and 4G, and they both have the same problem, so..)
I wish I kept my SCSI CD-ROM drive. right now the only way to access the CD installer is making a disk image on my PB G3 onto a SCSI external HD, and then use that to install on the 5300c.
As for the OS, I think on Lowendmac.com, I've read that OS8.1 is the best compromise between speed and functionality. 8.5 was pretty unstable on my PM8600, and not sure if OS8.6 is too bloated for the 5300.
btw, my 5300 has 56Mb RAM... so not too bad. -
Jun 22, 2009 10:00 PMby A H1,I still have the oringal installer disk (I even dug out the original Disk Tools!! but I've forgotten how slooooooooow floppy is), but having diskimage to install off of is much better. thanks! I'll also try 7.5.x. I will also update to 7.5.5 for stability.
I have tried the cmd-option-shift-delete. it will bypass the internal ok, and boot off the CF card.. except it hangs on bus error. hopefully changing PRAM battery, etc., will help, as Niteshooter suggested. -
Jun 23, 2009 7:39 AMby Niteshooter,HelpfulHmm some thoughts.
Try your old battery, the PRAM batteries in PowerBooks are rechargeable but in most cases they seem to require a battery in the slot. Not sure if it's to do with contacts needed to complete a circuit or they piggyback some of the power off the battery but on the Pismo's I've worked on the PRAM doesn't seem to want to take a charge or charges a lot slower without a battery.
I tried going back to OS 8.0 on the 5300 since I still have it loaded on a different Kingston 512MB CF card and on each restart it came up with the bus error so my best guess is that you need to try 8.5. I installed this from the retail version (green CD).
I have the 8.6 upgrade somewhere but have a feeling that might not work.
Also have 9 floating around so may try that on a bigger card when I have some spare time...
Just to recap, I'm using some pretty old Kingston 512MB CF cards. Back before we had all the different speed ratings so these are probably the slowest ones out there. I suppose the bus could be funky enough that the newer faster cards can have an issue so I'll try a faster card I have later.
Using a Kyrocera PCMCIA CF card adaptor in the top PCMCIA slot on the 5300cs and setting it to boot from the CF card in the startup disk control panel.
I'm installing the OS from an Apple 2X CD rom attached via the special PowerBook SCSI cable to the 5300 and running the install from this. I'm formatting the CF cards with the version of disk tools on the CD I'm loading the OS from.
Then doing a normal system installation on a clean CF card.
I pulled out another 5300cs and booted it from the OS 8.5 CF card no problems booting. Tried the OS 8 CF card and bus errors out every time.
Kevin -
Jun 23, 2009 2:35 PMby A H1,Very interesting indeed. I installed the old main battery in. will let it sit a few hours before trying few things.
when you installed OS8.5, did you format it as HFS or HFS+?
for 8.1, if I format the CF as HFS+ it wouldn't recognize the system folder at all (reject upon startup in the PC slot). it would recognize as system folder but get bus error with HFS.
on speed, I've been told using the CF card in the IDE slot via adapter is much faster than booting off PC slot due to data bus difference (16bit vs 32 bit or somesuch) -
Jun 23, 2009 3:31 PMby Niteshooter,Hmm good question, I used the disk tools that is on the installer CD which does not give you that option. Are you using an OSX tool? If so that might be part of the problem.
I noticed that when I tried to move a file from my G5 running OSX Tiger onto a floppy formatted on the 5300 once I put the file on the floppy the 5300 failed to see the file. Shows the missing space but no file.
It looks like size and speed might matter. I found an old Dane-electric 1GB CF card again without any speed rating. Loaded 8.5 on it and it boots the 5300 just fine.
Looks like those adaptors are pretty cheap, under $2 shipping incl from Hong Kong. Probably worth trying them since working ATA hard drives for these PowerBooks are starting to get hard to find.
Kevin -
Jun 24, 2009 8:31 AMby A H1,if you formatted the CF card under OSX, and worked, probably was formatted as HFS+. on earlier OS, I think they don't recognize HFS+...
I use the 5300c to format the CF card HFS. I've also done it under OS9 both as HFS and HFS+ (that's how I found out 5300c wouldn't even recognize a system folder under HFS+, but will if formatted as HFS). I tried formatting under OSX, and then when I first put it into OS9, it couldn't read it and had to re-initialize.
I bought a CF-IDE adaptor here: http://www.buyextras.com/syulide42hdd.html for $10 including shipping. you can get the same from newegg.com too for few dollars more...
so once I can get the 5300 to boot from CF card, I'll install in the HD... (I get same error message, regardless of where the CF card is installed, and taking the 5300c apart every time to fix things takes too much time... although not as hard as taking apart an iBook of the Al-PB.. ugh)
still digging for OS8.5... and older CF cards (most are 16Mb and similar, so too small) -
Jun 24, 2009 11:14 AMby Jan Hedlund,Hi again,
You should (normally) not have a problem starting from a CompactFlash card with System 7.5.3. Have you tried both PC Card slots? Is the RAM card securely in place internally?
A CF card (in a PC Card adapter) could be used for the transfer of the downloadable nineteen (US version) 7.5.3 files from one of your more modern PowerBooks to the PB 5300c. Once decoded, place the files (one .smi and eighteen .part) in a folder on the hard disk (or perhaps even on the CF card itself). Double-click on the first file (.smi) in order to mount the entire disk image. The installer will be found in the mounted image.and older CF cards (most are 16Mb and similar, so too small)
I just tested an old Integral 16 MB CF card (SanDisk PC Card adapter) in a PowerBook 5300c (with 32 MB of RAM). The card was formatted by Drive Setup 1.7.3. A minimal (Swedish) System 7.5.3 was chosen (custom install). No problem booting (CommandOption+ShiftDelete) from the CF card.
Jan -
Jun 24, 2009 1:24 PMby Niteshooter,No. I use the disk tools that is on the installation CD for OS 8.5.
I use the default setting which is Macintosh Standard.
I bet using OSX is one of your problems!
The other is the size of the card, I found an old 2GB slow CF card. Loaded 8.5 which is known good and guess what Bus Error so it looks like the maximum is 1GB.
I just ordered 6 CF to IDE adaptors from here, http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&item=2504 41428368 total cost shipping included was just under $10 cdn.
Ok did some more testing, looks like OS 9.1 works as well. I formatted a known good 512MB Kingston CF card just now and just dragged and dropped the entire known good OS and applications
from the 5300c I dug out.
Major discovery with OS9 it needs more than 24MB of real memory to run in so that was why I couldn't install it on either 5300cs. My 5300c has 64mb.
Also noticed for the first time that running from the CF card vs the internal 1.1GB hard drive feels slower.
Discovery #2, I bought a cheap 1GB CF card today. Must be a type II as the card has slightly different shaped groves on the sides and therefore will not fit the card readers I own. Should be fine with the CF to ATA adaptor.
Should also be interesting to see if the ATA adaptor has the same size limitations that I am finding with the PCMCIA adaptor.
Kevin
