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Q: Powerbook 5300c & booting from CF cards (PCMCIA & as IDE drive)

Hi all,

I'm trying to "upgrade" my vintage PB 5300c and replace the internal noisy slow HD to using CF cards via the IDE-CF card adaptors.

in theory, this should be pretty easy.. format the CF card as HFS, install OS (trying 8.1), connect everything and reboot.

however, I'm having severe difficulties. First, I couldn't get the 5300c to boot off the CF card via the PC card slot at all (ejects the CF card not finding any OS on it). This, I managed to figure out that using HFS+ was a bad idea. So I reformatted the CF card to HFS (standard), and then re-installed 8.1. At least this time it would recognize a system folder and try to boot.. but soon after the MacOS splash screen it crashes stating "bus error". I managed to get it to reboot once while holding the shift key, but only that once.

I've tried installing the CF card to the IDE drive chain, and managed to get it boot in OS8.6, but it's kinda slow.. so I would really like to boot into 8.1...

But either way, I need to make sure I can boot this thing via pc slot before I put it back into the IDE drive bay. so under HFS, I have tried installing a fresh copy of OS8.6, 7.6, 8.1 to no avail. it still boots fine via the internal hard drive, or using SCSI external. I haven't tried putting the CF card back onto IDE bay yet.

What is wrong? is there something wrong with the motherboard/logic board that is preventing it from booting from CF? I'm starting to think there is something more sinister than just a plain-vanilla "bad OS installation".

All installation is done on the 5300c, either through an install disk image on the CF, or the internal HD, or "drag-drop" a known working OS onto the CF.

I have at my disposal, my trusty Al-PB G4 running Leopard (kinda useless other than downloading stuff from the net and loading on to CF to get it on the PBs), PB G3 Lombarde (somehwat useful, although it won't work under 8.1, so trying the installation on that machine is useless). I also do have another 5300c with a bad power connector (the solder ripped off) so i do have some spare parts to swap if needed...

any ideas what to do? I guess I can try to install OS7.5 (painful...) instead of 7.6 and see if that works... I'm totally baffled, and I'm starting to get a bit discouraged here...

Powerbook G4 Al 15" 1.5Ghz, Mac OS X (10.4.11), MacPro 2.8Ghz 8-core, Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Jun 21, 2009 9:24 PM

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Q: Powerbook 5300c & booting from CF cards (PCMCIA & as IDE drive)

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  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jun 24, 2009 1:31 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jun 24, 2009 1:31 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Jan Hedlund wrote:
    Hi again,

    You should (normally) not have a problem starting from a CompactFlash card with System 7.5.3. Have you tried both PC Card slots? Is the RAM card securely in place internally?

    A CF card (in a PC Card adapter) could be used for the transfer of the downloadable nineteen (US version) 7.5.3 files from one of your more modern PowerBooks to the PB 5300c. Once decoded, place the files (one .smi and eighteen .part) in a folder on the hard disk (or perhaps even on the CF card itself). Double-click on the first file (.smi) in order to mount the entire disk image. The installer will be found in the mounted image.

    and older CF cards (most are 16Mb and similar, so too small)


    I just tested an old Integral 16 MB CF card (SanDisk PC Card adapter) in a PowerBook 5300c (with 32 MB of RAM). The card was formatted by Drive Setup 1.7.3. A minimal (Swedish) System 7.5.3 was chosen (custom install). No problem booting (CommandOption+ShiftDelete) from the CF card.

    Jan


    Hi Jan, I think the main problem he is having is that his cards are either too large eg 4GB or too fast eg 80x.

    I'm finding a limit on the 5300cs of 1GB in terms of size. I don't have a fast 1GB card I can swipe to test yet but suspect that was the other issue as he was using these cards.

    CF cards used: 1G Sandisk Ultra II
    4G Kingston 4G 133x elite pro


    Kevin
  • by Ben Sivertsen,

    Ben Sivertsen Ben Sivertsen Jun 24, 2009 3:45 PM in response to A H1
    Level 2 (170 points)
    Jun 24, 2009 3:45 PM in response to A H1
    I have been able to run 8.1 on a 5300c of a 2G CF card in the PCMCIA slot reliably for over a year, until I swapped it for a 1400cs. The installation process may be a little odd, but it worked. I first installed the OS on the card using a Wallstreet, then inserted the adapter with drive into the 5300. I removed the RAM card, and started up holding down shift (extensions off). Once I booted up I installed SpeedDoubler 8 (can be found online) and RamDoubler (found at same place) turned off Virtual Memory, and I then shut down the 5300, reinstalled the RAM card, and booted up normal. I don't know why , but I didn't have to do any of this for 8.6 or 9, just 8.1 If I tried to boot with the RAM in before installing the Doublers, I would get the same "bus error" problem. If I didn't turn off extensions the first time, same message. The 5300 was also overclocked to 117 mhz, sothat may be part of the problems
  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jun 24, 2009 4:48 PM in response to Ben Sivertsen
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jun 24, 2009 4:48 PM in response to Ben Sivertsen
    Hi Ben, could you tell us which 2GB CF card you were able to get to work?

    Thanks!

    Kevin
  • by Ben Sivertsen,

    Ben Sivertsen Ben Sivertsen Jun 24, 2009 7:33 PM in response to Niteshooter
    Level 2 (170 points)
    Jun 24, 2009 7:33 PM in response to Niteshooter
    Can't remember off the top of my head, as I said I swapped it so it's no longer around. I do remember that it was a Sandisk, I bought it at Staples. When I picked it out I remember it was a mid level model, not the fastest, but not the slowest either. I was able to use 8.1 on multiple cards, I just mentioned the 2 gig one since people were saying there may be a size restriction.
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Jun 24, 2009 11:09 PM in response to Niteshooter
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Jun 24, 2009 11:09 PM in response to Niteshooter
    I think the main problem he is having is that his cards are either too large eg 4GB or too fast eg 80x.


    Hi Kevin,

    Yes, that is quite possible. Unfortunately, at this moment I do not have access to larger than 1 GB (nor faster) CF cards. The 16 MB card test with System 7.5.3 mentioned earlier could be a way to at least determine whether A H1's PowerBook 5300c is capable of booting repeatedly without any other difficulties.

    Regards,

    Jan
  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jun 25, 2009 6:54 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jun 25, 2009 6:54 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Hi Jan and Ben, thanks for the information.

    I've only tested the one 2GB card so can't say it's definitive at this point. Both of the old 1GB cards I've used do work though with OS 8.5 and 9.1.

    I have the following cards,
    -Kingston 512MB with orange/white label
    -Kingston 512MB with plum label
    -Dane-Elec 1GB with orange/blue label
    -Intron 1GB in Super Talent package
    -PQI 1GB white/blue label
    -Intron 2GB in Super Talent package

    I'm going to revisit the 2GB card and dig out an old Sandisk card as well.

    One interesting discovery. I could not install OS 9 on the 5300's with only 24mb of memory. But if I install 9.1 from the 5300c with 64mb of memory and turn on VM to 48mb the card will boot and run fine on the 24mb PowerBooks.

    Speed also seems pretty good even though it is running a lot of VM.

    I stumbled upon a site the other day that was trying to set up some sort of database showing which cards worked and which didn't. Can't find it now but did find this on LEM.

    http://lowendmac.com/reviews/07/flash.html

    Looks like a lot of hit and miss with cards, should be interesting to see what works with the internal adaptor.

    Kevin
  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jun 25, 2009 9:38 AM in response to A H1
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jun 25, 2009 9:38 AM in response to A H1
    Well this is getting more interesting....

    Picked up a cheap 4GB Kingston Elite Pro CF card just now. Formatted it with the 5300c and dumped the hard drive to the card. It works!

    I also went back to the 2GB card and tried it on the 5300c and it also works!

    What is interesting is the 2GB card does not work on either 5300cs. Have not tried the 4GB card yet.

    Kevin
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Jun 25, 2009 11:58 AM in response to Niteshooter
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Jun 25, 2009 11:58 AM in response to Niteshooter
    Hi again,

    Today I bought a 4 GB card. Carried out the following test:

    - Computer: PowerBook 5300c, 32 MB of RAM, Swedish System 7.5.5 on the hard disk.

    - SanDisk CompactFlash PC Card Adapter

    - SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash 4 GB card (new, never used)

    - Started PB 5300c with the Shift key depressed

    - Inserted adapter (lower PC Card slot)

    - After an extra attempt, message "...cannot read et cetera, do you want to initialise?". "Format : Macintosh 3.8 GB". Chose to proceed with this "high-level" formatting.

    - Started the (Swedish) System 7.5.3 Installer (on the PB 5300c hard disk). Custom Install. System software. Minimal system for this Macintosh computer. Noticed odd values available space. Installed onto the CF card.

    - Shut down. New start (CommandOption+ShiftDelete). Booted OK (several times) from the CF card.

    - Shut down. Selected the CF card via the Startup disk control panel (in the 7.5.5 system folder on the hard disk, since the minimal system on the CF card had a limited set of control panels). New start. The PowerBook was able to (repeatedly) boot from the CF card.

    I will continue with a full installation of System 7.5.3 (Easy Install) onto the CF card (after having reinitialised/erased it via Erase Disk in the Special menu). Also intend to try Drive Setup 1.7.3 (Zero all data under Initialization Options in the Functions menu) and yet another 7.5.3 system software installation later.

    Jan
  • by A H1,

    A H1 A H1 Jun 25, 2009 12:49 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (49 points)
    iPhone
    Jun 25, 2009 12:49 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Hi All,

    wow, this topic has grown in involvement. Nice to see so many people with vintage PB's

    anyway, here's my update. sorry I've been sick so haven't been able to stare at a computer too much for the past couple of days... (and also digging through boxes in the garage looking for small CFs.)

    this is what I've tried so far:

    system: 5300c, 56M RAM, 500M internal HD. until recently it was running solely off the AC (no main battery attached). just put an old main battery in.. but no change to "bus error" problem booting off CF cards.

    I do have another 5300c, but that one has a bad power connector (socket ripped off from motherboard) so it won't power up... sigh... good for replacement parts,though.

    4G Kingston elite pro
    currently formatted HFS+. will not recognize system folder at all. will have to reformat as HFS (will get to this next)

    1G Sandisk Ultra II
    formatted HFS. installed 8.1, 5300c will recognize the system folder, but reports "bus error". putting 8.6 same. will try to reformat and put in 7.6 (or will try downloading 7.5.3)

    16M Canon CF
    just dug this out. installed the DiskTools system folder in it. will boot! now trying to install minimal 7.6 or something... (gosh, OS7 looks very plain compared to other OS... forgotten how OS6/7 looked like!).

    so... seems like my 5300c may have some lower CF capacity limitation than the others.
  • by A H1,

    A H1 A H1 Jun 25, 2009 2:43 PM in response to A H1
    Level 1 (49 points)
    iPhone
    Jun 25, 2009 2:43 PM in response to A H1
    ok, I re-initialize/formatted the Kingston 4G 133x elite pro card using Drive Setup (not through menu->special->erase disk) and formatted it HFS (previously was formatted using Lombarde running 9.2, using menu->special->erase disk to HFS+).

    then installed OS 7.5.3... and now it boots!!! rebooted few times, no problem, from the 4G 133x CF.

    now installing OS 8.0/8.1 and see if that works... if it follows Niteshooter, it will not boot from 8.0/8.1. we shall see...

    if OS 8 works, then the issue may be how the card was initialized/formatted (using Drive Setup instead of Menu-->special-->erase disk?). the 1G Sandisk Ultra II still doesn't boot, btw... will try reinitializing using Drive Setup and see if that makes any difference.

    also, it didn't make a difference with the 1G card, but the machine now currently has a main battery installed, which may or may not affect PRAM battery charging as Niteshooter previously suggested..
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Jun 25, 2009 3:35 PM in response to A H1
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Jun 25, 2009 3:35 PM in response to A H1
    Hi A H1,

    I will continue with a full installation of System 7.5.3 (Easy Install) onto the CF card (after having reinitialised/erased it via Erase Disk in the Special menu). Also intend to try Drive Setup 1.7.3 (Zero all data under Initialization Options in the Functions menu) and yet another 7.5.3 system software installation later.


    Tested both methods. So far, the 4 GB SanDisk Ultra II CompactFlash card has been working fine as a startup disk every time .

    If you wish to use Drive Setup for the formatting, try the downloadable 1.7.3 version (drag-copy the Drive Setup application from the mounted disk image to the PB 5300c hard disk). The versions on (for example) 7.5.2, 7.6, 8.1 and 8.5 disks/discs are older.

    Jan
  • by A H1,

    A H1 A H1 Jun 25, 2009 11:49 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (49 points)
    iPhone
    Jun 25, 2009 11:49 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    HA! Success!!!!

    After re-initializing my CF cards using Drive Setup (don't know which version... probably the one that came with OS8.1), and instead of using a default initialization method, I did Custom initialization and chose 1 partition, and then reformatted the CF cards.

    on both cards (4G Kingston 133x elite pro, and 1G San Disk Ultra II), which previously the 5300c would report bus error and not boot, booted well with OS7.5.3 installed. Then I installed OS 8.1 (install OS8.0 then upgrade to OS 8.1.. Since I no longer have an external CD-ROM, I had to make a disk image using Lombarde, transfer it to the 5300c via CF card, and install using 5300c), and now it boots fine from the PC card slot.

    Now I'm about to do the ultimate test of hooking up the CF card to the IDE adapter, and see if it works... (this I think will have to wait until tomorrow.. too late tonight...)

    I did download the Drive Setup 1.7.3 that Jan suggested. haven't used it yet. Might try to update the driver and see if that makes any difference too.

    was interesting booting into 7.5.3.... forgotten how fast OS7 was, in comparison to OS8... and primitive looking! Nostalgic... but missing too many convenience factors, so I'm glad OS8.1 runs ok...

    One thing I did notice during installation, is that previously, the installer would not report the correct free disk space on the CF cards that were initialized using the menu-->Special-->Erase Disk method. now it seems to see the entire disk size. so I suspect the way I had initialized the CF cards was one of the main problems.

    now, the next test would be to install JLK (Japanese Language Kit) and see if it still functions or partition the CF card and see if that will allow stable dual-OS installation (I do have System Switcher that will allow me to choose which OS to boot from even if I have multiple system folder on the same partition, but that sometimes seem to cause weird instabilities too, so...). I wonder if I can boot my Lombarde using the CF card now (I'll have to install OS8.6 for it, though)

    Fun!

    I will post again once I get the CF card installed in the IDE bus and report...
  • by A H1,

    A H1 A H1 Jun 26, 2009 12:57 PM in response to A H1
    Level 1 (49 points)
    iPhone
    Jun 26, 2009 12:57 PM in response to A H1
    HA again! Success!

    I took the 1G CF SanDisk UltraII that succeeded in booting off the PC Card slot onto the IDE-to-CF adapter, and replaced the internal HD.

    I now have a very SILENT PB 5300C!!!

    lessons learned:
    1. reformat/re-initialize using Drive Setup, HFS (Standard OS). I chose 1 partition to make sure everything on the CF card was destroyed before reinitializing

    2. OS 7.5.3 clean install works

    3. OS 8.1 clean install works! (did not try 8.6 nor any of the OS9.. but not needed for my needs, so I did't install)

    4. PB 5300C can handle 4G Kingston Elite Pro 133x, so at least up to 4G and to 133x acceleration, it can handle it.

    5. PB feels more responsive than with HD, and than with booting off of CF using PC card slot. waking from sleep may be tad faster, but not too much.

    Thanks to all! it's strange to have a machine boot silently, with no HD clicking sounds to confirm it hasn't froze, but otherwise, it's really nice not to hear the incessant HD whine anymore!


    Thank you all for all your suggestions and help!
  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jun 27, 2009 6:46 AM in response to A H1
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jun 27, 2009 6:46 AM in response to A H1
    Hey good to hear. I wonder if the internal adapter will be less troublesome than the PCMCIA adaptors.

    K
  • by A H1,

    A H1 A H1 Jun 27, 2009 9:45 AM in response to Niteshooter
    Level 1 (49 points)
    iPhone
    Jun 27, 2009 9:45 AM in response to Niteshooter
    Don't know. On my machine, it seems to behave almost identically. if it doesn't boot off the PCMCIA, it won't boot from the IDE. both adapters are basically a pass-through of pins, so I can't imagine it being that much different in terms of stability... although since the IDE bus is faster, it's possible that the performance may be different between different CF card ratings. but I have a feeling the R/W speed is bus-limited and not card-limited...

    I've noticed this how the USB-based card reader reads the CF content much faster than putting it either in the PC slot or connected through camera USB ports... this wasn't much of an issue with a 3Mpix camera, but when it became 12Mpix photos with RAW, download speed became incredibly noticeable.. now we only download camera contents via USB card reader.

    On a side note, I still can't get the Lombarde (PB G3 bronze keyboard.. well it's actually a Lombarde with a Pismo logic board, since the original LB fried due to thermal overload/stresses and I had to replace it off eBay purchase) to boot off CF no matter what I do. Haven't tried putting the CF in the HD bay yet. That machine seems to have some hardware pickiness "issues" among other idiosyncrasies, so... It would be nice to run off the CF to lower the power dissipation since that thing gets SO HOT and actually goes through thermal shutdown/crash occasionally. replacing the HD with CF probably would help a bit. There are reports of running 7hrs off battery using CF internal on Lombarde. so that may be a strong incentive for others to convert their old PB's to CF internal HD replacement, in addition to minimizing spinning platter issues and weight...
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