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Q: Powerbook 5300c & booting from CF cards (PCMCIA & as IDE drive)

Hi all,

I'm trying to "upgrade" my vintage PB 5300c and replace the internal noisy slow HD to using CF cards via the IDE-CF card adaptors.

in theory, this should be pretty easy.. format the CF card as HFS, install OS (trying 8.1), connect everything and reboot.

however, I'm having severe difficulties. First, I couldn't get the 5300c to boot off the CF card via the PC card slot at all (ejects the CF card not finding any OS on it). This, I managed to figure out that using HFS+ was a bad idea. So I reformatted the CF card to HFS (standard), and then re-installed 8.1. At least this time it would recognize a system folder and try to boot.. but soon after the MacOS splash screen it crashes stating "bus error". I managed to get it to reboot once while holding the shift key, but only that once.

I've tried installing the CF card to the IDE drive chain, and managed to get it boot in OS8.6, but it's kinda slow.. so I would really like to boot into 8.1...

But either way, I need to make sure I can boot this thing via pc slot before I put it back into the IDE drive bay. so under HFS, I have tried installing a fresh copy of OS8.6, 7.6, 8.1 to no avail. it still boots fine via the internal hard drive, or using SCSI external. I haven't tried putting the CF card back onto IDE bay yet.

What is wrong? is there something wrong with the motherboard/logic board that is preventing it from booting from CF? I'm starting to think there is something more sinister than just a plain-vanilla "bad OS installation".

All installation is done on the 5300c, either through an install disk image on the CF, or the internal HD, or "drag-drop" a known working OS onto the CF.

I have at my disposal, my trusty Al-PB G4 running Leopard (kinda useless other than downloading stuff from the net and loading on to CF to get it on the PBs), PB G3 Lombarde (somehwat useful, although it won't work under 8.1, so trying the installation on that machine is useless). I also do have another 5300c with a bad power connector (the solder ripped off) so i do have some spare parts to swap if needed...

any ideas what to do? I guess I can try to install OS7.5 (painful...) instead of 7.6 and see if that works... I'm totally baffled, and I'm starting to get a bit discouraged here...

Powerbook G4 Al 15" 1.5Ghz, Mac OS X (10.4.11), MacPro 2.8Ghz 8-core, Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Jun 21, 2009 9:24 PM

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Q: Powerbook 5300c & booting from CF cards (PCMCIA & as IDE drive)

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  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jun 27, 2009 2:47 PM in response to A H1
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jun 27, 2009 2:47 PM in response to A H1
    A H1,

    According to Ryan Vetter (a longtime Mac user), booting from the PC card slot was dropped on the Pismo and probably also the Lombard.

    "As many may know, being able to boot a system folder from CompactFlash (Via PCMCIA/Cardbus adapter) was dropped after the Lombard (maybe the last was Wallstreet). Recentley, I read the developers notes for the Pismo and was interested to read that the Pismo Scans both Firewire and USB ports (in addition to Expansion Bay and internal IDE) for a startup disk. Using a cheap USB CompactFlash adapter, I copied Mac OS 9.2.2 onto the Flash card, set the startup disk (in startup control panel in 9.2.2) to boot from CompactFlash....and it ** well worked. Not bad, considering everything I'd previously heard said that booting from USB was not possible. A lot slower to boot than PCMCIA or internal, but none the less it works and may be a good trick to squeeze more battery life from the piz....and maybe later books. I imagine that with the use of a Firewire compactflash adapter, the speed of a System Boot from the compact flash would match the performace i got from a PCMCIA/Cardbus adpter in the old Powerbook 3500. No tests yet on how much it increase battery life, but its pretty much a given."
  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jul 3, 2009 9:49 AM in response to A H1
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jul 3, 2009 9:49 AM in response to A H1
    Just picked up a couple of Kingston 133x Elite Pro 8 GB CF cards. These work with OS 9.1 on my 5300c formatted Macintosh Standard.
  • by PianoKitty,

    PianoKitty PianoKitty Jul 10, 2009 2:21 AM in response to Niteshooter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 2:21 AM in response to Niteshooter
    im sure this isnt too related but im trying to install Mac OS 9 on my powerbook 5300c and i cant get the thing to boot off of my scsi cd drive to install it... i get the startup chime and the happymac but i cant boot off of cd... can someone help me find out what keys to press in order to boot from scsi cd?
  • by Niteshooter,

    Niteshooter Niteshooter Jul 10, 2009 6:16 AM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 2 (454 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 6:16 AM in response to PianoKitty
    Usually you boot while holding down the C key.

    Sometimes you can have a bad cable, though perhaps it's termination.

    K
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jul 10, 2009 9:46 AM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 9:46 AM in response to PianoKitty
    asams,

    To boot to your SCSI drive, press/hold down the 'delete-option-command-shift' keys; this forces a bypass of the internal drive and the 'book looks for another bootable volume. If you have a non-Apple SCSI CD drive, the CD probably does not have the necessary CD-ROM driver to recognize the optical drive nor would the optical drive have the necessary firmware for booting.

    There is a workaround:

    1. Grab the "universal" Apple CD-ROM v5.3.1 (60K) extension from OS 7.6; if you need help finding one, post back.

    2. Make a copy of your Disk Tools floppy that boots the 5300 (Disk Tools 7.5.3, 7.6, 8.1); put the downloaded CD-ROM driver in the Extensions folder in the System Folder of the Disk Tools floppy; you could name the floppy Special Boot Disk or whatever. If you need room, trash the Disk First Aid and/or Drive Setup.

    3. With everything shut off, plug in the SCSI CD-ROM drive (never connect/disconnect a SCSI device unless all power is removed from all devices) > turn on the CD-ROM drive > put your Special Boot Disk in the floppy drive > turn on the powerbook > the 5300 will automatically boot to the floppy and should also mount the CD-ROM drive (no desktop icon until CD is loaded and mounted) > now load your CD and see if it is recognized.

    4. The boot-floppy is now your OS...just launch the MacOS 9 Installer and run it.

    5. In order for the SCSI CD-ROM drive to be recognized with your newly installed OS 9, trash the Apple CD-ROM driver in the Extensions folder installed by the new OS and replace it with your 'universal' driver...this will always be required.

    If you do have an Apple drive, also try these...

    -Are you following the correct startup procedure? All power off > connect SCSI cable and device to powerbook > turn on device > turn on powerbook; shutdown is the reverse order. Never make any hardware changes with any power on...you could damage the SCSI bus.

    -Update the driver on the internal HD using Apple's Drive Setup utility.

    -Reset the PRAM if necessary.
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=2238
  • by PianoKitty,

    PianoKitty PianoKitty Jul 10, 2009 6:19 PM in response to jpl
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 6:19 PM in response to jpl
    i cannot seem to find the cdrom extension
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jul 10, 2009 8:12 PM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 8:12 PM in response to PianoKitty
    asams,

    You can find the driver here:

    http://www.macdrivermuseum.net/disk.shtml

    After you make a copy of your Disk Tools floppy, remove the CD-ROM driver in the Extensions folder, if present, empty the Trash, then add the 5.3.1 driver to the Extensions folder.
  • by PianoKitty,

    PianoKitty PianoKitty Jul 10, 2009 8:24 PM in response to jpl
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 8:24 PM in response to jpl
    do you know where i could find a boot disk?
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jul 10, 2009 10:48 PM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jul 10, 2009 10:48 PM in response to PianoKitty
    asams,

    You can download the "Macintosh/System/MacOS_8.1_Update/Disk_ToolsPPC.img.bin" here:

    http://www.info.apple.com/support/oldersoftwarelist.html

    I will have to power up my Wallstreet, put in the floppy drive, and make sure I can make a bootable floppy before I possibly give you incorrect directions. However, it is late and I'm headed to bed.

    Question: Is your 9.x CD a retail, full-install MacOS 9 CD (white label with a big orange '9') or a machine-specific 9.x CD? If the latter, you can forget trying to install 9.x from that CD.
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jul 11, 2009 10:52 AM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jul 11, 2009 10:52 AM in response to PianoKitty
    asams,

    I just made a bootable floppy disk (1.4MB) of the MacOS 8.1 Disk Tools image file.

    1. You have the download on your desktop as 'Disk Tools PPC.img.

    2. Download 'Macintosh/Utilities/DiskCopy/Disk_Copy4.2.sea.bin' at the same location, double-click to expand the file, then double-click again to open the (.sea) self-extracting archive.

    3. Follow the instructions from the downloaded text 'Macintosh/Utilities/DiskCopy/Disk_Copy4.2.txt' for making a floppy disk from an .img (image) file.

    4. Once the floppy has been made, open the floppy icon and drag the Drive Setup utility to the Trash and be sure to empty the trash. This will leave you plenty of room for the CD-ROM extension.

    5. Open the System Folder on the floppy, then drag the CD-ROM extension on top of the Extensions folder, close all windows and eject the floppy.

    6. Reload the floppy to make sure it mounts on the desktop.

    7. Test the floppy: Restart with the floppy in the drive and nothing else connected to the 5300...press the 'delete-option-command-shift' keys.

    8. If it boots, shut everything down, connect the CD-ROM drive and turn it on (do not load the CD yet), then turn on the 5300 while pressing the 'delete-option-command-shift' keys.

    9. If startup is successful, load the 9.x CD and see if it will mount on the desktop. If so, you can install 9.x on the internal HD; the installer gives you a choice of destination.

    10. Erase the internal HD so you start with a clean drive. You will of course lose all data on the HD but you can download whatever files you want lost regarding this process by just coming to this thread for the links. As I recall, if you are running a version of 7.5.x, I don't believe you can(?) or should try to update the existing 7.5.x to 9.x.

    10. If successful, drag the CD to the Trash, then click Restart...it should start to the internal HD.

    11. You will have to remove the CD-ROM extension from your new 9.x System Folder and install the version Apple CD-ROM v5.3.1 that you downloaded for the floppy if you want to continue using the CD-ROM drive.
  • by PianoKitty,

    PianoKitty PianoKitty Jul 18, 2009 6:59 PM in response to jpl
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 18, 2009 6:59 PM in response to jpl
    i do not have a second mac to deal with those files... all i have is a pc with win xp(dont shoot me the powerbook was given to me by my uncle to be my first mac... it has the right system requirements but there is no os anymore on it and it is using a sony discman SCSI CD drive and it does work cuz ive used it in system 7.5.3 PPC so can i fix it with a PC?
  • by PianoKitty,

    PianoKitty PianoKitty Jul 18, 2009 7:00 PM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 18, 2009 7:00 PM in response to PianoKitty
    btw the pc and the PB both have working floppy drives and hard drives... maybe you could put the disk image in a zip file and email it to me
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jul 18, 2009 8:49 PM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jul 18, 2009 8:49 PM in response to PianoKitty
    asams,

    Since it is difficult to make a Mac-bootable floppy on a PC, it would just be easier to mail you a couple of Mac floppies with the necessary software installed. If you are interested, you could temporarily post your email address in your Public Profile and then remove it when I contact you; I just don't give out my email address. Or you could post here in the forums by writing it out such as 'johnjones at google dot com' so email address scavengers/harvesters won't see it. If you put in your Public Profile, just post back with a short message like "OK, will do".
  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Jul 18, 2009 9:44 PM in response to PianoKitty
    Level 6 (9,901 points)
    Jul 18, 2009 9:44 PM in response to PianoKitty
    Hi,

    If you somehow can make the PowerBook 5300c boot to (for example) System 7.5.3, you should not have a problem handling the modifications suggested by jpl on that machine. System 7.5.3 can read PC-formatted floppy disks, meaning that any downloads could be carried out via a PC (keep the downloaded .bin files unaltered until on the Mac). Once on the Mac, use StuffIt Expander for the decoding/decompression (drag the files onto the StuffIt Expander icon).

    If you do not have StuffIt Expander for Macintosh: Use a PC to download the MACDISK.EXE file here. Prepare an empty PC-formatted 1.44 MB diskette via FORMAT A: in DOS or the full formatting option under Windows. Launch the MACDISK.EXE program on the PC. Follow the on-screen directions. The result will be a Mac-formatted disk with a ready-to-use StuffIt Expander 4.0.1 installer.

    The Disk Tools PPC download contains a New Disk Image Format (NDIF) file. In order to create a floppy from such a disk image, Disk Copy 6.3.3 is used (which is the application I think jpl had in mind; the 4.2 version is for the older image type).

    Unfortunately, there does not seem to be a way of making sector-copied floppies from NDIF files on a Windows PC. However, the old DC 4.2 disk image format works with certain PC utilities (e.g., a shareware program called WinImage). If you wish to experiment with this, one disk tools disk (suitable for a PowerBook 5300c) with an image in the old format would be the At Ease-IDE Utility Disk here. The downloaded file has to be decoded/decompressed on the PC first, via an appropriate version of Aladdin or StuffIt Expander for Windows (this is an exception; do not normally decode or unpack Mac program files on a PC). Then locate the actual image file and try the PC disk image utility. As soon as you have a bootable floppy, move to the PB 5300c.

    If necessary, you could try to drag-copy the entire system folder from a startup floppy to an empty hard disk. This is often OK as a temporary operating system.

    Jan
  • by jpl,

    jpl jpl Jul 18, 2009 10:00 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 7 (28,285 points)
    Jul 18, 2009 10:00 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Jan,

    I made the Disk Tools PPC floppy on my Wallstreet running OS 9.2.1 using the older Disk Copy 4.2. Should I redo them in the event 'asams' wants the floppies from me? The floppies mount fine on the WS's desktop but I cannot test-boot them. My WS requires a minimum of OS 8.1 with a special Powerbook G3 Enabler since the WS was released post OS 8.1. You either install OS 8.1 from the Software CD that came with the WS or use a retail MacOS 8.5 CD or newer.
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