9390 Views 1 2 3 Previous Next 33 Replies Latest reply: Oct 2, 2009 9:41 AM by chucknkd Go to original post
I can see where this is going. The new version of Logic has a confusing tool to create fades. While Cubase has handles IN THE TIMELINE.
Can I end the discussion here? Unless somebody can show me a way to drag handles directly on the timeline, then Cubase is clearly easier and faster to use.
Thanks to you all. Time for me to close the browser and create some music.
Message was edited by: macmusic47
Well, I am back. I finally found Hyperdraw. Thanks to all you bearing with my everbuilding frustration and confusion that is Logic.
Everytime I want the volume handles, I select View>Hyperdraw>Volume to turn them on.
There it is, thanks everyone. duhh.
Seems like they should be on all the time, like Cubase. I suppose there is a reason Apple did that.
Is there a quicker way to turn those handles on all the time? Maybe a button or a preference to always show them?
Sorry if that's a dumb question. Seems like obvious things are hidden to me in Logic.
Unless you need a very volume specific curve on your region, it's probably faster to use the Fade Tool together with the Gain setting, and edit the fadein and fadeout curves.
There are several other ways as well, like eg. using a Gain plugin and automate it per region, using either normal track automation or Hyper Draw.
I'd avoid using the Sample Editor, because what happens there is usually destructive (with backup options, of course).
And yes, you can assign a key command to 'HyperDraw: Volume", and use it an all selected regions. I definitely wouldn't use HyperDraw volume and regular volume automation on the same track, because they both address the same parameter (CC7).
None of this (except the Gain parameter per region) is new in Logic 9, but Logic 9 has something called Fade Tool Click Zones, which makes the whole fade process a lot faster (no need to use the old Fade Tool).
you can use +create 4 nodes+ keycommand for every region and you will get your handles there (remember to press A to see them)
as far as midi plugins, Logic does not have plugandplay midi plugins like Cubase or DP. Instead it has the ability to CREATE your own midi plugins in the ENVIRONMENT.
Learning a new program requires that you dig into the manual or video tutorials to understand how the program functions.
A generalization is that all DAWs allow us to record & edit audio & MIDI, etc. But the devil is in the details of how features are implemented.
When I first started using DP a few years ago, I kept expecting it to function like Cubase VST32 (5) which I had used for many years prior to. I realized that I had to dig into the manual in order to retool my brain so that I could understand how DP features were implemented (vs my deeply ingrained previously learned ways of working).
I started using Logic as of version 8 and found it refreshingly ease to harness it's power. (Of course I'm side-stepping the Environment in my statement).
Cubase 5 drew my back to the fold because it has some incredibly cool features that I enjoy using. But it's not perfect either! At this point I pick either L8 or C5 to complete a given project start-to- finish. I'm pretty comfortable switching between these programs, being mindful of the differences of how features are implemented or functions labeled.
I'm really jazzed up because Logic 9 should be here by Tuesday.
I'll feel the same way when the next Cubase upgrade comes along.
We're very fortunate to have all of these powerful tools at our disposal for relatively little cost.
Don't know whether this is going to make your day, but you can use any number of MIDI ports and assign all their channels to various channelstrips. To do all this routing you have to open the environment and go to the "Click & Ports"-Layer (select at top left).
The object you are looking for is the "Physical Input". This lists all your interface ports and lets you draw cables to any destination. This is also where you can set up your arpeggiator and other MIDI effects that do anything you know from Cubase. I have made myself a pretty elaborate effects layer, in which I can combine any of the effects and apply them to any instrument. I can even opt to have the arpeggiator write the generated notes into my arrangement as MIDI events. Two things to consider when assigning MIDI from interface ports to objects in the environment:
1) in order to make connections from the Physical Input of the "Clicks & Port" Layer to the mixer layer where all the audio-instrument channel strips reside, open another Environment window and select the "Mixer" layer. Now you can drag a cable that you start at the Physical Input over tothe other window and connect it to, say an audio instrument there.
2) to assign all 16 channels of one port to 16 different audio-instruments you should to create a channel splitter ("create" menu in environment, ideally within the layer where you have all the audio-instruments you want to connect to) and plug a wire from the respective port in the physical input to this channel splitter. Give it a name like "MT4 Port 1". From here, draw cables to the individual channel strips you want to access from this MIDI port. If you use a Multi-Channel-Instrument you might not even need a splitter.
Alternatively, you can wire a bunch of Instrument Channel Strips that you wish to access from one particular port in sequence and set each one to the desired Channel number. That way you don't need a channel splitter. This solution might make it harder to see your routing if you are trouble-shooting.
I know this process problably many times more tedious in Logic than in Cubase, but very few people use it the way you do. If you make this a template, however, you'll soon forget about the pains of having set it up one day long ago...
Best of luck,
Audio in Logic is processed using 32-bit floating point math. This is not the same as audio data that's got 32 bits of resolution (i.e., 32-bit linear PCM). And while working in Logic you are not downsampling to get to 24 bits. In other words, processing is done at 32-bit floating point, but once that audio reaches an output object (i.e., Output 1/2), it becomes normal 24-bit audio, but not by virtue of any dithering needed to make the conversion.
Regarding your MIDI requirements, I'd like to elaborate a bit on the answer that Tobiasync gave you. While what he suggested will work like a charm, the problem is that you won't be able to record what you play (more on this below). The kind of setup Tobias described has the makings for a great live rig where different plugins are accessed by A) which keyboard you play and B) which MIDI channel that keyboard is transmitting on. But you wouldn't be able to record anything you play in Logic using that scheme. Here's why:
MIDI data has to make its way to the *Sequencer Input* object (as normally found in the Clicks & Ports layer of the Environment) in order to be recorded on a track. The normal MIDI data flow in any new Logic song is this:
+Phys. Input --> Seq. Input --> Track --> Instrument#XYZ (hosting a plugin)+
+Phys. Input --> Seq. Input --> Track --> Ext. MIDI Device+
What you'd be doing using Tobias' setup totally bypasses the Seq. Input and sends data directly to the instrument itself. Therefore, your MIDI data won't be recorded. Actually, it simply can't be recorded this way.
Let's say you were playing live and bouncing between all 5 keyboards and selecting different MIDI channels on them as you played. That gives you up to 5*16 instrument sounds accessible at once. Fine. But unless you had a rather complicated, custom setup in your Environment you couldn't record any of it. And even with such a setup, the Sequencer Input will only differentiate between 16 MIDI channels, regardless of the source (port). And you can't assign multiple Sequencer Inputs to specific tracks. So if you wanted to be able to record any of what you played, you'd have to limit yourself to 3 channels on 4 of the keyboards and 4 channels on the remaining one.
Message was edited by: iSchwartz
I migrated from Sonar to Logic about 2 years ago and had a tough couple of months re-adjusting to Logic's way of thinking. It's so hard remembering the different terminology and assuming that the new program can't do what the old one did, just because you don't know how (I'm sure that was the same for all those Logic die-hards coping with the massive changes from V7 to V8 - they suited me fine though as it moved more towards my way of thinking). Through reading the manual, checking out the forum and watching SFlogicNinja on YouTube (my life saver) I not only can do most of what I was missing in Sonar, but much more.
There are, of course still features I miss from Sonar, but as each new version of Logic comes along, they seem to add them (audio quantising etc).
'The Big 5' Pro-Tools, Digital Performer, Cubase, Sonar and Logic all have a few killer features which the others don't - and all do now, what just a few years ago, none did!
We are so lucky to have what we've got, for a tiny fraction of what it cost in days of yore (pre 90's). Do your homework and you've got even more than you thought - or wait a few versions and get what you want from the others.
I think macmusic47 is happy using Cubase but wants an excuse to come back to Logic which looks very attractive at the moment, he just needed to be convinced - I have a feeling you did the job.
One day, apple, or Sony, or Avid, or whoever will buy-out all the DAWs and then they'll be one program to use and we'll ALL be happy.... Oh, and I bet it won't work on Windows!
Honestly it seems you don`t know Logic and its workflow very good. Most of what You´re asking for is already done years ago.
You can use Hyperdraw for controlling Volume (or any CC you want) in individual objects (both MIDI and Audio). Also there is a region fade in and out with curves and time... I think it`s there from V4.
32bit export... well... floating or fixed?... there is a lot of debate about if this has any benefit in audio. Maybe it is important for you.
More than 16 MIDI channels?. That`s new... If you need a 5 keyboard setup you´ll have to go to the environment and you´ll find that you can route any input and any channel to any destination.
Last time I checked Nuendo their MIDI plugins were funny but a joke compared to MIDI processing in Logic. Please tell me what can be done with that that can be achieved in Logic 10 years ago or more.
Multichannel can be done for years. It can be done better, as PDC, but it never was a problem here.
So: I think you have to read the manual and forget your Cubase thinking OR go back to Cubase. You can`t have Logic working as Cubase,
1. If you drop a sample or loop onto a timeline, that is an individual event. In cubase, you can draw a volume envelope on each of these events, to even them out. Logic does NOT allow you to draw volume envelope for each individual event. Only the overall track automation. Which is a royal pain to do.
Not true. There is region volume envelopes and these are not the same as track automation. What you might be confused by is the lack of "Region Based Automation." AFAIK - nothing has changed. So for example, if you wanted to create automation for a plug-in parameter, then loop the region, it will not repeat that automation because its only on the track, not inside the region.
2. Every mastering program accepts 32 Bit files (Peak, T-Racks, etc.). If you plan to do any post-processing, it is dumb to reduce to 24 bit, and go up to 32 bit again.
While you could call this a "Pro" feature, most would find this pretty esoteric. More importantly is 64bit CAF files, which allow long, high resolution recordings.
Still to answer your question directly— no, there is no 32bit option when bouncing files. And I agree with you, if you are working with a mastering app that supports 32bit, this is definitely preferable.
3. Logic does not recognize individual ports on a multi-port MIDI interface. It lumps them into one port, forcing you to assign different MIDI number (max of 16). Cubase never had that limitation. You CANNOT record more than 16 midi tracks at a time in Logic. Cubase will record unlimited number of midi tracks simultaneously.
Again, this is a pretty esoteric / edge case workflow. Who is recording 128 MIDI channels simultaneously? Even 32 seems pretty out there for 99% of the working professionals out here.
4. Cubase has plugins that effect MIDI channels. They are VST MIDI plugins, not to be confused with VST Audio Plugins. Logic does NOT support MIDI plugins at all. MIDI Plugins are very useful. For example, arpeggiators, re-routing midi, etc.
I agree this would be really great and Logic does not have MIDI plug-ins.
5. Logic has an antique version of MIDI. Try to use the B4 organ plugin with 3 keyboard controllers attached. This is how the B4 program is meant to be played. Logic cannot apply multiple keyboard controllers to a single MIDI plugin. You have to open the plug in 3 times, to use 3 keyboards. Like the sequencers from the 80s. Antique.
I'm sure Logic can do this. Can you be more specific about what hardware you are using, and why you think this doesn't work?
I only wish to address 3 of the items in your list:
3. It's actually very easy to get Logic to use more than 16 channels of MIDI on a multichannel plugin that supports it, for example USB's Plugsound Pro, using multiple Multi-Channel instruments in the Environment. Honestly though, do you actually record more than 16 channels of MIDI simultaneously at any given time? If you do, you are the exception and not the rule; I've been a "pro" producer for over a decade now, and have yet to meet a "pro" who actually does this.
4. Logic does not have MIDI plugins, but things like arpeggiators, transformers, and more are available in the Environment. Using Environment objects aren't really as Plug-n-Play as MIDI plugins, but with a little bit of effort one can create very powerful MIDI devices in Logic's environment, and this since Logic version 1; one could argue that MIDI in Logic is much more powerful than in Cubase.
5. Of course you can run multi channel plugins in Logic. Logic's own EVB3 uses multiple MIDI channels to control the keyboards and the pedal board. All you have to do is make sure your multi channel plugin is set to ALL in the instruments Parameter box of the Inspector pane, then split your controller accordingly, or use multiple MIDI controllers. I've been using multi channel plugins in Logic for years without issue.
Logic is a deep program (though it has become much more user friendly over the years), and as such is quite different in many aspects to Cubase. I know this, as I'm also a former Cubase user. In fact, regarding audio routing, quality of plugins and general UI friendliness I'd argue that Logic is superior to Cubase, and Logic 9 only widens the gap. I would honestly suggest you take some time out of your schedule and really go over the features Logic has to offer. Seriously, if you don't have the time to do the research as you state, then why did you switch from Cubase?
Message was edited by: csimmons
Message was edited by: csimmons
here are my two cents...
with regard to your concern about using envelopes for the purpose of evening out volumes of different regions, don't forget that you get soundtrack pro as part of logic studio, and now you can use an automated feature in soundtrack pro to even out volumes of multiple clips ! so send your audio out to soundtrack, treated there and bring it back into your session project.