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Repairing permissions after 10.5.8 update extreme oops maybe???

45530 Views 106 Replies Latest reply: Oct 6, 2009 7:54 PM by mascotca RSS
  • netnothing Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)
    I'm guessing that they haven't updated the combo update, and might not unless Apple determines that the bad permissions could cause an issue.

    I think the easiest thing to do in your case since you haven't installed it yet, is to just install it twice in a row (not repairing permissions in between).

    The only reason most of us have had to install it a total of 3 times is because we repaired permissions after the initial install, thus setting them incorrectly and causing us to reinstall 2 more times.

    I don't think the delta update from Software update has this issue, so you could always do that. I'm guessing that the majority of users use that, so Apple might not respond to the combo update right away.

    EDIT: I reinstalled the update 2 more times on a total of 3 macs and it's fixed the issue on all of them.

    -Kevin

    Message was edited by: netnothing
    Mac Pro 2.66, MacBook 2.4, Mac OS X (10.5.8)
  • Count Rockula Calculating status...
    Thanks Kevin. You know for some reason, it's always advised in many of the Pro Audio type forums such as Pro Tools, that you always want to download the Combo, and never install OS updates from software update. Not sure why.

    So, if I install this combo update, it should install just fine right? Just basically install it a second time for safe measure, THEN repair permissions?

    At what point will I know whether or not a third install will need to be done? What is flagging you guys to think that a second install is needed? I didn't follow the thread super close, cuz it just went way over my head. I'm gathering that if you repair permissions after the first install, something goes wrong. But if you apply the update twice, then repair permissions, the problem is no longer there?
    iMac G5 Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz, 3 GB Ram/iMac G5 (early 2008) 2.66 20", 4GB mem, Mac OS X (10.5.7), Parallels XP user
  • netnothing Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)
    The update should install just fine. It's just that the permissions database isn't updated for some reason if you only install it once. Doing the second install in a row, seems to solve this.

    The problem that I and many others had was that we installed the combo update as usual, but then REPAIRED permissions. Because the permissions database was incorrect, that permissions repair set the bad permissions on the files. So in order to correct it, we needed to install the combo update twice more (the key is installing it twice in a row to get the database to be updated).

    So since you haven't installed it yet, you don't have bad permissions set. So you should just be able to install the combo update, let it reboot, then install it again. Just don't REPAIR permissions in between those installs.

    After you've installed it twice in a row, you can VERIFY permissions to check to see whether everything is ok. Verifying permissions doesn't change the files. If the VERIFY comes back and you don't see a long list of those bad permissions asking for ?---------, then you're all set to REPAIR.

    I have no idea technically why this works....maybe someone more knowledgeable can chime in.

    -Kevin
    Mac Pro 2.66, MacBook 2.4, Mac OS X (10.5.8)
  • Gerben Wierda Level 1 Level 1 (125 points)
    What I could see from the logs (and this is why I got the idea that installing twice in a row would work) was that the update package adds the new files of the package to the permissions database before it actually installs them. When it tries to add them and it does not find them, it puts them in the permissions database with permission 0 (and user 0 and group 0).

    If you run it twice in a row, the second time around the files will have been installed by the first run and the correct permissions are added to the permissions database.

    So, for new files in the package:
    - first run of the update package:
    - updater puts 0 in the permissions database as the file is not there yet
    - updater installs the file
    - second run of the update package
    - updater puts the permissions of the +now existing+ file in the database
    - updater installs the file (again)

    Note, that if a file already exists but has different permissions in the update one install is also not enough. So, for me, I think I will in the future always run two back to back until I hear from Apple that this behaviour has been fixed.
    G4 Cube, MacBook Air, Mac mini C2D, Turbo NeXTdimension Cube
  • V.K. Level 9 Level 9 (56,120 points)
    Gerben Wierda wrote:
    What I could see from the logs (and this is why I got the idea that installing twice in a row would work) was that the update package adds the new files of the package to the permissions database before it actually installs them. When it tries to add them and it does not find them, it puts them in the permissions database with permission 0 (and user 0 and group 0).

    If you run it twice in a row, the second time around the files will have been installed by the first run and the correct permissions are added to the permissions database.

    So, for new files in the package:
    - first run of the update package:
    - updater puts 0 in the permissions database as the file is not there yet
    - updater installs the file
    - second run of the update package
    - updater puts the permissions of the +now existing+ file in the database
    - updater installs the file (again)

    Note, that if a file already exists but has different permissions in the update one install is also not enough. So, for me, I think I will in the future always run two back to back until I hear from Apple that this behaviour has been fixed.

    this is pretty clearly not the universal behavior of apple updates and is quite specific to 10.5.8 combo update. 10.5.8 delta update doesn't do it and gives correct permissions to those files on the first run. also, I've never seen these kind of errors before 10.5.8 which is certainly not the first update to introduce new files. therefore, I would consider running ALL updates twice somewhat of an overkill.
    Mac Pro 3.2 GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.8), Mac Pro 2.66GHz, powerbook G4 1.5GHz
  • netnothing Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)
    Thanks for the detailed description of what is happening.

    -Kevin
    Mac Pro 2.66, MacBook 2.4, Mac OS X (10.5.8)
  • Count Rockula Level 2 Level 2 (210 points)
    Sorry to ask, but I must... just what is a "delta" update? What is the word "delta" in reference to? Anything that get installed via Software Update only?
    iMac G5 Core 2 Duo 2.33 GHz, 3 GB Ram/iMac G5 (early 2008) 2.66 20", 4GB mem, Mac OS X (10.5.6), Parallels XP user
  • V.K. Level 9 Level 9 (56,120 points)
    combo update combines all updates 10.5.1-1.5.8 and can be installed directly on any system 10.5.0-10.5.8. delta update is only for updating from 10.5.7 to 10.5.8. you can get it from the apple website or via software update if you currently have 10.5.7.
    Mac Pro 3.2 GHz, Mac OS X (10.5.8), Mac Pro 2.66GHz, powerbook G4 1.5GHz
  • lkrupp Level 4 Level 4 (3,085 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 10, 2009 3:33 PM (in response to lkrupp)
    http://support.apple.com/kb/TS1448

    A new document released to day increases the number of permissions discrepancies that may be safely ignored. This does not address the main topic of this thread regarding permissions not found but it does reinforce the idea that we should not be obsessing over permissions as long as our machines are performing normally.
    Aluminum 24" iMac (2.8Ghz Intel Penryn), Mac OS X (10.5.8), Apple TV 2.3.1 / Sharp Aquos 46" HDTV
  • RonL Level 1 Level 1 (45 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    Aug 11, 2009 9:40 PM (in response to lkrupp)
    Quite a list one has to review for 'allowable' (fugetaboutit) errors.
    G5 Tower, Mac OS X (10.5.8), 2 GB RAM; Apple Bluetooth keyboard
  • Mike Connelly Level 4 Level 4 (1,785 points)
    What I don't get is, if Apple knows of a number of "errors" that can safely be ignored, why don't they just update Disk Utility to not display the "safe" ones? Or at least offer that as a user preference?
    Power Mac G5 quad 2.5 and Mini duo 1.66, Mac OS X (10.5.4)
  • Douglas Level 3 Level 3 (775 points)
    I used the combo update to go from 10.5.7 to 10.5.8 and found about a dozen of the 'should be ?-------, they are' entries when I repaired permissions. I booted into my backup hard drive running 10.5.7 downloaded the combo 10.5.8 again and installed it on my main hard drive. After the installation was finished I repaired permissions again and the 'should be ?------, they are' were gone.

    However at the end there were 3 entries as follows : Empty Path in 'com.Apple.repair-permissions. pkg-group' receipt

    What does this mean and is this going to cause problems? Everything seems to be running fine.

    Thanks,
    Mini 2.0, 2GB RAM, Mac OS X (10.5.8)
  • Steven Shmerler Level 1 Level 1 (60 points)
    For those of us that have NOT done the combo 10.5.8 update yet, following dsanfili's permissions fix idea, assuming you want 10.5.8 on your main drive, what might be the result of starting up off a drive other than your main drive and applying the combo 10.5.8 update to your main drive - might that circumvent the permissions problems I'm reading about here?

    Also, is it better to boot off an external or other internal or either one?

    Lastly, what about passing on 10.5.8 altogether and just waiting for Snow Leopard
    Mac Pro 2 x 3.0 GHz Quad-Core, 4GB RAM, Mac OS X (10.5.7), 30" HP LP3065 Monitor & 22" Cinema Display
  • lkrupp Level 4 Level 4 (3,085 points)
    Steven Shmerler wrote:

    Lastly, what about passing on 10.5.8 altogether and just waiting for Snow Leopard


    Well, as has been stated numerous times, this "problem" doesn't appear to be causing any actual issues, and certainly didn't on my own installation. I would suspect the vast majority of 10.5.8 users are totally unaware of this and are happily going about their business. It's a sort of non-issue really, an oddity, an anomaly that some are curious about.
    Aluminum 24" iMac (2.8Ghz Intel Penryn), Mac OS X (10.5.8), Apple TV 2.3.1 / Sharp Aquos 46" HDTV
  • Richard Outerbridge Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Well, the null-permission files have never been listed in any "you can safely ignore these false-alarms" list, including the most recent one. So, can they safely be ignored, or should they be presumed alarming and dangerous?

    mert says he reported this as a bug back on 09-Aug-2009. So, has anyone heard anything from Apple since then, or the Users having found their own solution for those who bother to worry about such things has this been left hanging?

    Inquiring (albeit idly curious - or should that be curiously idle?) minds want to know!
    PowerBook5,8, Mac OS X (10.5.8)
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