AGP and PCI-X video cards in same Powermac G5

Question

AGP and PCI-X video cards in same Powermac G5

Dear members:

I am experiencing a problem with my system that seems to relate by a bottleneck created by my video card - an ATI Radeon 9600 Pro with 64 MB of VRAM.

In choosing a video card and I have had problems finding a good AGP card that will fullfill my requirements.

It was mentioned to me that I can simply install a PCI-X video card in my computer (it has 3 PCI-X expansion slots that are empty) and either leave the current AGP card (using both of them in tandem) or remove this card and use only the PCI-X one.

What are your opinions ? Is this a viable approach ? Being a viable approach, could this create problems (such as overheating) ?

Thank you in advance for your help.

Joseph Chamberlain

PowerMac G5 dual 2.0 GHz, 2.5 GB RAM, (2) int 400 GB HD, (2) ext 2 TB HD, Mac OS X (10.4.10), PowerBook G4 17" 1.33 GHz, 80 GB HD, 1.0 GB RAM

Posted on Jun 26, 2007 2:13 PM

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Answer 1

Jun 26, 2007 3:24 PM in response to apple_customer

Hi Joseph Chamberlain;

You can add more graphics cards to your G5. They will not work in parallel. What they will do is allow you to add more monitors which does not sound like what you want.

How about some details on why you think you have a graphics bottleneck?

Allan

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Answer 2

Jun 26, 2007 6:19 PM in response to apple_customer

Hi Joseph:

You should know that adding more than 1 graphics card will not speed things up, as Allan said, the only purpose for multiple cards is for multiple monitors.

This is because Apple has not yet adopted ATI's Crossfire or nVidia's SLI for coupling multiple GPU's for faster performance, read gaming in the PC world, even though some of Apple's pro Apps are dependent on the GPU for performance ... maybe in the future.

In fact there were rumors that some of the PRO Apps may actually run slower with two video cards, Check out the Aperture Forum here:

http://discussions.apple.com/category.jspa?categoryID=184

and do a search on 'video cards' or 'GPU'

Currently the best card for G5 AGP is the ATI X800 XT, but they are hard to find as they are not being manufactured anymore, also the older nVidia Geforce 6800 Ultra DDR card is a good bet if you can find one.

-Robert

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Answer 3

Jun 26, 2007 8:46 PM in response to Allan Eckert

Hi, Allan.

My problem has to do with my recent upgrade to Adobe's Creative Suite CS3. I haven't really had any problems with Photoshop CS3 yet although I can hardly make any claims as I have not used it much. Bridge CS3 is an entirely different story. This is the one application I used the most in my workflow and it simply isn't working for me. Adobe suggests a better video card with at least 128 MB of VRAM although this may also borderline. I would like to move to a card with greater processing power and at least 256 MB (512 MB would be nice if one is available).

Thank for your help.

Joseph Chamberlain

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Answer 4

Jun 26, 2007 8:59 PM in response to Robert Edison

Hi, Robert.

I have looked for both cards but can't seem to find neither one. I've called both ATI and nVidia but no luck. First both cards are out of stock. ATI says the X800XT is being re-certified for some kind of heavy metal compliance (absence of Lead in the solder they use) and it may take two months or more for the card to become available again. The story with nVidia is a little different. They say that they develop the technology and the video chips but license it to Apple that then manufacturers the cards itself. Based on conversations I had with an Apple representative the 6800 is not likely to be produced again.

I understand this cards can be found on eBay but I would rather avoid that route. First because I would prefer to buy a new card and second because I have a few friends who have been burnt by used items purchased through eBay.

In case the option of having a video card connected to my system through the PCI-X slot is viable, then this solves my problem as I can either (1) add this card and leave the existing one or (2) remove the older AGP card and leave only the new PCI-X card.

With this in mind do you think the PCI-X card would work well and with no problems in my system ? In this case what would be a good card to use ?

The Apple Store has the ATI Radeon X1900 GT Mac Edition video card for sale but the specifications say it is a PCI Express card. When I called Apple the support agent that helped me verified the specs of my computer through the serial number and told me my expansion slots are PCI-X. I've been told to watch out as PCI Express and PCI-X are not the same. Are the video cards for these two types of expansion slots interchangeable or not ?

Any ideas ?

Thank again for all your help and suggestions.

Joseph Chamberlain

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Answer 5

Jun 26, 2007 9:17 PM in response to apple_customer

The ATI X800 can be obtained here (after 23 days):
<http://eshop.macsales.com/item/ATI%20Technologies/100435338/>

The Nvidia 6800 and 6800 Ultra are here (for a lot of money):
<http://www.welovemacs.com/g5video.html>

Don't bother with a PCI-X card. It will be a LOT slower than your existing card and will not have Quartz Extreme or Core Image support. The only reason to get one is to run more than two displays.

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Answer 6

Jun 27, 2007 12:39 AM in response to apple_customer

Joseph:

I have looked for both cards but can't seem to find
neither one. I've called both ATI and nVidia but no
luck. First both cards are out of stock. ATI says the
X800XT is being re-certified for some kind of heavy
metal compliance (absence of Lead in the solder they
use) and it may take two months or more for the card
to become available again.

See Malcolm's post.

The story with nVidia is a
little different. They say that they develop the
technology and the video chips but license it to
Apple that then manufacturers the cards itself. Based
on conversations I had with an Apple representative
the 6800 is not likely to be produced again.

Ya It's an old one. In general ATI is better at providing upgrade cards than nVidia for Macs.

In case the option of having a video card connected
to my system through the PCI-X slot is viable, then
this solves my problem as I can either (1) add this
card and leave the existing one or (2) remove the
older AGP card and leave only the new PCI-X card.

With this in mind do you think the PCI-X card would
work well and with no problems in my system ? In this
case what would be a good card to use ?

See Malcolm's post.

The Apple Store has the ATI Radeon X1900 GT Mac
Edition video card for sale but the specifications
say it is a PCI Express card. When I called Apple the
support agent that helped me verified the specs of my
computer through the serial number and told me my
expansion slots are PCI-X.

Yes they are, as well as an AGP slot.

I've been told to watch
out as PCI Express and PCI-X are not the same. Are
the video cards for these two types of expansion
slots interchangeable or not ?

No, unfortunately they are not. Also the PCI express bus in the last generation of PM G5's is different from the newer Mac Pros so there are two ATI X1900 cards, both PCI express, one for the G5 (ATI Radeon X1900 GT Mac G5 Edition) and one for the Mac Pro (ATI Radeon X1900 XT). Confusing isn't it.

Any ideas ?

I would try to get the ATI X800 (AGP) card.

Agreed to stay away from eBay, you might get a re-flashed PC card, & no Warranty.

Also there is no cards available with 512MB VRAM for PM G5's, 256 is the maximum.

You might also consider adding some more RAM, I see you have 2.5 GB, maybe add another 2 GB, for 4.5 GB ... CS3 is RAM hungry I'm told.

Check prices here:

http://eshop.macsales.com/shop/memory/PC2100-2700-3200-DDR-184pin/

-Robert

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Answer 7

Jun 27, 2007 10:25 PM in response to Robert Edison

Hi, Robert.

Thanks for the help and suggestions. I will follow your advice and order another 2 or 4 GB of RAM tomorrow for my computer. That should not only help with the issue I am experiencing but help improve performance all around.

In regards to the video card I found a few but they are selling for $799. This is almost the cost of a new iMac and the iMac comes equipped with a better card (depending on the model).

I am running out of ideas. It is very sad that Apple no longer offer parts for this computer. nVidia says that they license the technology and Apple actually manufactures the cards itself. This computer is only 2 and 1/2 years old and is being treated as obsolete by the same company that sold it to me. Makes no sense.

At this point I don't know what route to take.

Thanks again for all your help and input.

Joseph Chamberlain

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Answer 8

Jun 27, 2007 10:29 PM in response to Malcolm Rayfield

Hi, Malcom.

Today I called Apple's technical support department and while discussion my case I mentioned what you had told about Quartz Extreme and Core Image support if I were to install a PCI-X video card in my computer. The Apple tech who helped me on the phone said that if I were to install a Mac video card with an accompanying driver specific for the Mac this driver should give the card access to this technology (Quartz Extreme and Core Image) built into OS X. I am not sure whether I trusted the technician.

What is your opinion ? Can you confirm this for me ? Do you really think that if I were to install a video card in one of the PCI-X slots it would not have access to these important image technologies in OS X ?

Thank you again for your suggestions,

Joseph Chamberlain

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Answer 9

The hatter

Level 9

61,001 points

Jun 28, 2007 12:58 AM in response to apple_customer

The Radeon 9200 PCI had limited QE support. But you really don't want to go down that path if you need or depend on it. You want AGP or better yet a system that supports the newer PCI Express video.

It isn't driver only.

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Answer 10

Jun 28, 2007 7:52 AM in response to apple_customer

There are no Apple drivers to install for Apple compatible graphics cards. OSX contains all needed drivers. There is an unsupported way to enable Quartz Extreme on a PCI card, but I think it has problems (such as it disabling it on the AGP card).

Why do you want to install a PCI-X card? Any PCI-X card will be a lot slower than the AGP card you have now (even if you could enable Quartz Extreme on it). The only way to get better graphics performance is to replace the AGP card with a more powerful one. Your only choices are the ATO X800 (with a long wait) or the expensive Nvidia 6800, or 6800 Ultra. Adobe software should work (but not at full speed) with your existing card. Do they list any card requirements, as opposed to recommendations.

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Answer 11

Ricktoronto

Level 6

11,560 points

Jun 29, 2007 5:51 PM in response to Malcolm Rayfield

There are oodles of AGP 256MB and 128MB ATI card on eBay since none of the vendors have them in stock. I got a ATI PC/MAC 9600 256MB for $169 from Hong Kong in 4 days. Works great.

I should sell my 128MB on eBay given the demand.

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