Is -12db an absolute number?

What is the absolute –db level that should never be exceeded when recording audio? I recently taped an event where there was some singing involved fed to me via an xlr hardwire, by a house audio tech guy running a soundboard. Most of my recording is at a very conservative level. But, a couple of peaks hit somewhere between -12db and -6db, and the audio popped and distorted on those peaks. I’m trying to clarify if the distortion came from the fact that I “broke the not above the -12db rule”, or if I actually got fed some distorted audio.

m



Posted on Jul 11, 2007 9:53 PM

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7 replies

Jul 11, 2007 10:11 PM in response to Marco_Polo

The levels in FCP are measured in the Decibel scale called Decibel FullScale (dbFS). The top of this scale is 0 dbFS. This is the absolute maximum level which can be handled in the digital domain, there are no positive levels in dbFS scale. All levels are negative relative to the top of the scale. While in the analog world overdriving (more than 0dbu) continually degrades the signal up to the saturation point, in the digital world any levels which would exceed 0 dbFS lead to unacceptable distortion (clipping). Contrary to old school practice, it's not at all desirable to peak as close as possible to 0 dbFS.

If your peaks at -12 to -6 are distorted then it would seem to be the incoming signal that carried the distortion and was not a result of recording those levels into FCP itself

you'll find excellent info on this, and far more in depth knowledge than I could hope to offer, in Bob Katz's articles on the Digital Domain website.
here's a link to one, go, read and then take a look at the others ... then come back and be our digital audio expert!

http://www.digido.com/bob-katz/level-practices-part-1.html

cheers
Andy

Jul 11, 2007 11:48 PM in response to Marco_Polo

What were you using to record the event?
Were you taking +4 dBu line level directly into your video recording device via balanced XLR, or using a matching box to provide a consumer -10 db level for your device's unbalanced inputs (RCA inputs)?

It's important to know the audio specs of this device to come up with the correct answer.

One possibility, assuming that the signal was leaving his board clean without peak distortion, could be that the signal was over-loading your device's input stage before it gets to the gain control on your recording device.
If this was the case then the signal would have to be padded down before it enters your recording device.
One clue to this being the case would be that you had to set your input level much lower than normal.

Without knowing what reference level he was sending to you, and the input capabilities or you recording device, no really accurate answer can be given to this question.

Jul 12, 2007 12:45 AM in response to Links

Thanks for the link to Bob's article. Will check it out.
I was running an xlr feed into a Sony FX-1 using a beachtek adapter. 99% of the audio out of a 2 hour session is just fine. It is just those several peaks that really distorted. Since those peaks landed between -12db and -6db I thought I'd be OK. I'm guessing that the peaks came out distorted from the audio board. But, of course, the guy who ran the audio board claims otherwise. We are not talking high-end here (including the guy who rode the audioboard-or didn't.) I'm wondering if I should use -12db as the absolute level not to pass. Thanks for the responses.

m

Jul 12, 2007 1:51 AM in response to Marco_Polo

Which model of Beachtek adapter?
Did you have a mic level feed from the house audio guy?

Levels on your camera can peak to -1 db full scale without distortion.
If your audio source is carefully monitored, recording at a level where your peaks only ever hit -12 db will lower your S/N ratio.

This is really tricky to control during a live event as the house sound guy knows he can constantly hit +3 VU on his analogue mixer without noticable distortion.
You on the other hand are in the digital world where there is no "headroom".

Unless you work very closely with the sound guy even setting your level to -12 full scale won't protect you.
A good mixer can output short peaks to +22 dBm without distorting.
In this situation a limiter between the mixer and your inputs would help.
Ideally, you also want to be present during rehearsals so you can anticipate problem passages.

BTW, during my 30 year career as audio recording engineer with the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation, i have made many hundreds of live recordings, simulcasts, CDs, and lived in both analog and digital worlds. So I fully appreciate your situation.

Jul 12, 2007 11:59 AM in response to Marco_Polo

The DXA-4 has had excellent reviews.
Being a passive device there's no preamp that could overload.

Reading up on your camcorder i saw that it has a peak limiter built in that's always on.
Plus an AGC which can be turned on or off.

Over at the bealecorner this report on audio with this camcorder:

http://www.bealecorner.com/fx1/index.html

"Note: in manual audio levels mode (both mic and line level) the FX1 has an always-active internal limiter which starts around -8 dB full-scale and limits the average recorded level to about -5 dB full-scale. I view the presence of this limiter (which cannot be switched off, as far as I know) as a good thing from a production standpoint, as it extends the useful dynamic range of the audio inputs by about 20 dB before severe clipping starts. However, it can complicate audio distortion testing."

Based on this and a lack of any complaints about audio distortion in all the reports I read, I'd say that the distortion most likely originated from the house sound mixer.

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Is -12db an absolute number?

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