User profile for user: Bud Willner
Bud Willner Author
User level: Level 2
233 points

Mac Classic II Software Update?

I just picked up a Macintosh Classic II that had OS 7.0.1 on it. I want to upgrade it to 7.6.1 but cannot. I can't load 7.6.1 because I need 7.6 and I can't load 7.6 because I need 7.5 and I can't load 7.5 because I need 7.1 and I can't load 7.1 because it's not available. A;so 7.1 is not for the Classic II.

How do I get from A to Z (or 7.0.1 to 7.6.1)?

I have downloaded a ton of older OS 7 stuff from Apple Older Software page and nothing works.

What are the answers?

Bud

<edited by host>

Message was edited by: Brett L

G3, G4, G5,G3 PB, G4 PB, Classic II, Choose

Posted on Aug 5, 2007 1:24 PM

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20 replies
User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
24,235 points

Aug 5, 2007 2:47 PM in response to Bud Willner

Bud,

The 7.6.1 update (a free download) requires 7.6 (not free; has to be purchased). The earlier versions are not necessary.

Alternatively, you could download and install a complete System 7.5.3 (e.g. the US version here). First of all, make sure that the Classic II has more than 4 MB of RAM. Also, the hard disk should have more than 40 MB free. Decode (use StuffIt Expander) all nineteen .bin files on a Macintosh computer (do not attempt to decode the files on a PC). The individual segments are small enough to fit onto 1.44 MB floppies. Place the resulting decoded files (one .smi and eighteen .part) in a common folder on the hard disk (this will take up approx. 22 MB of the space). Double-click on the first (.smi) file to mount the entire disk image. The installer will be found in the mounted image. If there is a problem mounting the image when starting from System 7.0.1, try a Network Access Disk 7.5 ( here) floppy as a boot disk.

Jan
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User profile for user: Grant Bennet-Alder
Grant Bennet-Alder
User level: Level 10
140,783 points

Aug 7, 2007 9:13 AM in response to Joshua Burker

This page has some suggestions for running 7.5.3, but stripping it down and removing un-needed extensions etc. to make it less memory and processor intensive:

http://home.earthlink.net/~gamba2/753min.txt

REDUCING 7.5 or 7.5.3 FUNCTIONALITY TO 7.1
The following is a custom install procedure for the free Macintosh System software versions 7.5 or 7.5.3. The functionality is reduced to that of System 7.1 + Update 3.0. This is an option for those who have limited Hard Drive space and/or don't wish to download 7.1. The memory requirements are shown below for a Mac SE/30 20/100.
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User profile for user: ed_orbea
ed_orbea
User level: Level 1
0 points

Aug 10, 2007 7:34 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Sorry if that a repeated question, but as a newby I have a similar issue. I have a Classic Mac that I want to upgrade. I have downloaded the disk images "System 7.5.3xxof19.smi.bin" to my WinXP system [sorry] and I am looking for direction as to how to copy them to floppy to load onto my Classic, or otherwise "transfer" them to my MAC. (For my AppleII I have used a null-modem cable and ADT software, so hopefully there is a similar product for my MAC)
Thanks
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User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
24,235 points

Aug 10, 2007 11:49 PM in response to ed_orbea

ed_orbea,

First of all, which of the "Classic Mac" computers here is it?

Generally speaking, a Classic Macintosh computer with a 1.44 MB floppy drive may not have a PC Exchange control panel. This means that you will not be able to see PC-formatted floppy disks directly on the Desktop. It is possible to use PC floppies via a separate program called Apple File Exchange, though (look for this utility on the Tidbits system disk; System 7.0.1 and 7.1). If you have either PC Exchange or Apple File Exchange, just copy the nineteen System 7.5.3 .bin files as they are (do not decode or alter the files in any other way) onto PC-formatted 1.44 MB diskettes on the Windows machine; then bring them to the Mac and decode there (drag each file onto StuffIt Expander).

If a suitable version of StuffIt Expander for Macintosh is not available, try this:
Download the MACDISK.EXE file here onto the (floppy-drive equipped) PC. Prepare an empty 1.44 MB PC diskette via FORMAT A: in DOS or the "full" formatting command under Windows. Launch the MACDISK.EXE program on the PC. Follow the instructions on screen. The resulting floppy disk will be in Mac format and will contain a StuffIt Expander 4.0.1 installer.

If neither PC Exchange nor Apple File Exchange is at hand, you will have to copy the nineteen files to Mac-formatted 1.44 MB disks on the PC instead. This can be done by a PC utility such as the old freeware program HFVExplorer or the shareware application TransMac.

It is also possible to use a null-modem cable between a PC (with a serial port) and the Mac. To do this, one can combine a Macintosh (hardware handshake) modem cable MiniDIN-8M to DB-25M and a standard PC null-modem cable DB-25F to DB-9F. The communications section of ClarisWorks can be used on the Mac. On the PC, use the built-in Windows terminal emulator or something similar.

Jan
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User profile for user: Bud Willner
Bud Willner Author
User level: Level 2
233 points

Aug 11, 2007 7:48 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

What I did was as follows:

I have had a Sony 2X FDD USB drive hooked up to my G5. I reformatted a number of diskettes, PC/Mac, to standard rather than extended.

I downloaded both 7.5.3 and 7.6.6 images, expanded them with Stuffit Expander, and copied the images to the diskettes. My MAC Classic II has a 1.44mb drive so was able to transfer older data from the MAC Classic II to my G5 such as older tax information.

To get any .sea or .bin diskette to open “Disk Copy v 4.2 Apple” and “MacBinary v 1.0.1 (Greg Smith 1989)” must be loaded on the MAC Classic II first. I guess any version in this area would do well enough. These are needed for unpacking. I cannot unpack .smi yet. 7.5.3 first disk image has this and is needed to install the other 18 disk images.

That is not where the problem stops. Both the 7.5.3 (& 7.5.5) and 7.6.6 need their initial upgrade, i.e., 7.5 and 7.6 primary OS installed first.

Upgrades are free but 7.5 and 7.6 cost money. There are sources on the internet but most deal with CD’s with 7.5 and 7.6 on them.

A CD image can be transferred to the MAC Classic II (or whatever) by hooking up the MAC II 25 pin HD connection to another computer that that is connected to your Ethernet. Transfer the CD image to the other Ethernet computer and then transfer those images to the MAC Classic II. A problem here is that the two physically connected computers don’t necessarily talk the same language. The computer connected to the Ethernet will see the MAC Classic II as another HD but the MAC Classic II must be turned on first and no other activity being done to the computer on the Ethernet. Follow this with a turn on of the Ethernet computer. If the MAC Classic II freezes, hit the reset button on the side.

A considerable amount of information can be transferred this way as long as one is patient. My Ethernet computer is an older laptop G3 bronze keyboard. It has a square 30 pin connector. About 10 years ago I had purchase the first color Apple laptop (donated to Goodwill) and wanted to download information from my MAC II (not the MAC Classic II) so I had to buy the special square 30 pin cable to interconnect them. It still worked on this setup. Adaptec makes a SCSI card for newer computers.

Another problem with the MAC Classic II computer is the lack of memory. Over 4mb is needed and memory still cost dollars for older equipment. HD still cost also. 7.5 and 7.6 work best with more memory than 4mb.

Hope this helps someone.
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User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
24,235 points

Aug 11, 2007 9:43 AM in response to Bud Willner

Bud,

Just a couple of comments.

To get any .sea or .bin diskette to open ........ must be loaded on the MAC Classic II first.


StuffIt Expander (for a way of obtaining the 4.0.1 version for Mac, see above) will decode MacBinary (.bin) files, as well as BinHex (.hqx). A self-extracting archive (.sea), where the resource fork has not become damaged during transit, will expand automatically when double-clicked upon. If there is a problem, one can try to drag a StuffIt .sea file (there are other .sea files that may behave differently) onto the StuffIt Expander icon. Disk Copy 4.2 is only needed in order to open Disk Copy 4.2 type disk images, and is not required for the System 7.5.3 download.

I cannot unpack .smi yet. 7.5.3 first disk image has this and is needed to install the other 18 disk images.


When the nineteen .bin files have been decoded by StuffIt Expander (apparently, this is what you did already on the modern Mac), they (one. smi and eighteen .part) are to be placed in one common folder on the Classic II hard disk. As indicated earlier, then merely double-click on the .smi file. This should mount the total image (the 7.5.3 installer will be found inside).

Both the 7.5.3 (& 7.5.5) and 7.6.6 need their initial upgrade, i.e., 7.5 and 7.6 primary OS installed first.


I think you mean 7.6.1 (not 7.6.6). In that case it is true that 7.6 is needed (nothing earlier). The downloadable System 7.5.3 however will install and work as it is, provided that the Classic II hard disk has an appropriate bootable operating system. If necessary, a 7.5 startup floppy can be made from the aforementioned Network Access Disk 7.5 download.

A CD image can be transferred to the MAC Classic II (or whatever) by hooking up the MAC II 25 pin HD connection to another computer that that is connected to your Ethernet.


Apple supports SCSI Disk Mode (HD Target Mode) for certain PowerBook computers (equipped with an HDI-30 SCSI port). The PowerBook would then act as an external hard drive when connected to a desktop Mac (which has a DB-25 SCSI port). Special adapter cables have to be used for this.

Otherwise, a direct connection between two SCSI ports is not supported, and may be risky.

It is possible to remove a SCSI hard drive from one Macintosh computer, and then (via a different kind of cabling) connect it (externally or internally ) to another SCSI Mac.

Jan
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User profile for user: Bud Willner
Bud Willner Author
User level: Level 2
233 points

Aug 11, 2007 1:05 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Jan;

Thanks for your comments. All good.

Some replies to comments.

I had no idea Stuffit Expander 4.0.1 was still available. I did a Google search for it and installed it on my Mac Classic II. Thanks for that. What I used is what was available quickly to me (Disk Copy and MacBinary). Both worked for their intended use. It would have been nice if Apple had put OS 7.5 and 7.6 on their Old Software page. I they did, I could not find it.

As for the .smi, I cannot yet open it on the Mac Classic II. Couple of problems here. Before installing 7.5.3, 7.5 should be loaded, correct? Putting all 19 disk images on an 80mb HD with only 36mb available is a bit tight. Again, the need for more memory comes up as well as needed HD room for installing 7.5.3. Going direct to 7.5.5, which would have all of 7.5.3 stuff, seems to be the wiser thing to do, correct?

OS 7.6 has upgrade 7.6.1 and 7.6.6. I figure no need to work 7.6.1 when 7.6.6 has the needed information 7.6.1 would install. This why I referred to it.

I tried the target mode without success. The method I used seemed to work within reason so I relayed that information in this forum. The use of Ethernet worked out but when I get squared away on being able to upgrade to 7.5 and 7.6, I’ll try it again.

Bud
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User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
24,235 points

Aug 11, 2007 2:29 PM in response to Bud Willner

Hi Bud,

It would have been nice if Apple had put OS 7.5 and 7.6 on their Old Software page. I they did, I could not find it.


No, the full 7.5 and 7.6 are not available at the Apple download site.

Before installing 7.5.3, 7.5 should be loaded, correct?


No, not necessarily. The downloadable System 7.5.3 is a complete operating system, that can be installed if only the Mac will boot and the self-mounting image (.smi) will mount. System 7.0.1 or higher is normally said to mount .smi files. However, it may be safer to use a System 7.5 startup floppy. So, since you have Disk Copy 4.2, create a sector-copied floppy (the Load Image File and Make A Copy buttons) from a downloaded Network Access Disk 7.5 disk image. Copy all the nineteen decoded System 7.5.3 files to the hard disk. Then, start from the Network Access floppy, and double-click on the .smi; this should mount the whole image.

Putting all 19 disk images on an 80mb HD with only 36mb available is a bit tight.


Yes, but you can probably free some more space. If you start from the Network Access floppy, you could even remove the existing system folder on the hard disk entirely (backup special extensions et cetera, if applicable). The nineteen files plus the new system folder will require around 40 MB totally.

Going direct to 7.5.5, which would have all of 7.5.3 stuff, seems to be the wiser thing to do, correct?


No, while 7.5.3 is a full system, the downloadable 7.5.5 is only an update (where 7.5.3 is needed first).

OS 7.6 has upgrade 7.6.1 and 7.6.6


7.6.6 is unknown to me.

Jan
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User profile for user: Bud Willner
Bud Willner Author
User level: Level 2
233 points

Aug 11, 2007 6:19 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Jan;

Followed your procedure regarding 7.5.3 except I started the first disk with the .smi from the HD as it seems the first install disk is to large for a 1.44 floppy. It worked plus it reduced the amount of HD used from 43mb to 18.4mb but 1k more memory. It looked as if the HD needed defragmentation.

With your explanation, I understand about the 7.5.5.

As for 7.6.6, that was my error.

Bud
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User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
24,235 points

Aug 12, 2007 12:19 AM in response to Bud Willner

Bud,

I started the first disk with the .smi from the HD


Yes, both the first file (the .smi) and the remaining eighteen (.part) shall be on the hard disk. You then have the option to double-click on the .smi while the Classic II is still being booted from the existing system folder on the hard disk. Or, you could boot the Classic II from a separate startup floppy (for instance, made from the Network Access Disk 7.5 download here) and then double-click upon the .smi.

as it seems the first install disk is to large for a 1.44 floppy.


The first (.smi) will fit on a 1.44 MB floppy disk, either as a .bin file before the decoding or in its decoded form (plain .smi suffix). Please note though that the floppy disk is only used for transfer from a downloading computer to the Mac where the installation is going to take place. A floppy with the first (the .smi) of the totally nineteen files cannot be used as a bootable disk. For the installation you will have to rely on another disk as a startup disk (see above).

It worked plus it reduced the amount of HD used from 43mb to 18.4mb but 1k more memory. It looked as if the HD needed defragmentation.


Very good! In this context I should mention that the mounted disk image is almost twice the size of the sum of the nineteen files. When you double-click to mount the whole self-mounting image in this case, the individual segments (which together constitute one large disk image) are being decompressed and joined. So, if a copy of the mounted image is kept on the Classic II (instead of only the nineteen files), a lot more hard disk space is used.

Jan
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User profile for user: Bud Willner
Bud Willner Author
User level: Level 2
233 points

Aug 12, 2007 6:52 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

Jan;

There is a slight misunderstanding. I tried a considerable number of times to put the .smi first image and Network Access Disk 7.5 on a 1.44 diskette. Neither fit. This is why I initiated install from the Mac Classic II.

The Apple instructions basically stated the same procedure you provided but when I could not load the required images unto diskettes, I had to find another way. This forum was it and your help made it happen.

As best I can tell everything was loaded including some items, I would probably not use. I did find it true that a large space was used for the mounting image. Once installation was complete, I removed the 19 images.

Thanks again for your help.

Bud
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User profile for user: Jan Hedlund
Jan Hedlund
User level: Level 7
24,235 points

Aug 12, 2007 9:09 AM in response to Bud Willner

Hi Bud,

You are welcome.

The main thing is that it worked. Even if you do not need it now, a Network Access floppy can be quite useful for future problem solving et cetera. Remember that the actual Network Access disk image (resulting from decoding the .bin and decompressing the .sea) is too large to be drag-copied to a 1.44 MB diskette. The .bin (or the .sea) will fit on a 1.44 MB floppy, though, allowing a transfer in undecoded (uncompressed) form from the downloading computer to the Classic II. Once on the Classic II, decode the .bin (decompress the .sea). Next, launch the Disk Copy 4.2 program on the Classic II. Click on the Load Image File button. Locate the Network Access image in the dialogue. Finally, click on the Make A Copy button. Follow the on-screen directions. The result will be a sector-copied bootable Network Access floppy.

Regards,
Jan
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