Booting with new aluminium keyboard

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Booting with new aluminium keyboard

Hi,
I got the new aluminium keyboard yesterday - seems to be fine but:

While booting there were no keys recognized at all. Neither CMD-V for verbous booting messages nor ALT for selecting either MacOS or BootCamp/Windoze...

Is there still a firmware update pending?

I'm using a Intel MacMini with MacOS 10.4.10, the latest keyboard update and all other published patches and updates...

Any hints?

MacMini, CoreDuo 1.8 GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.10), aluminium keyboard (with cable)

Posted on Aug 11, 2007 8:48 AM

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Answer 1

Aug 11, 2007 12:54 PM in response to kestrel9532

Yesterday, Apple released a second keyboard update, did you install that one as well?

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/firmware_hardware/keyboardsoftwareup date11.html

However, since this software is installed into Mac OS X, it shouldn't have any effect on holding down keys before startup. Where did you get your keyboard? Have you considered the option that maybe it's defective? You might want to bring it into an Apple store or call AppleCare Support.

-Doug

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Answer 2

kestrel9532 Author

Level 1

25 points

Aug 11, 2007 1:11 PM in response to Douglas McLaughlin

Yes, I think I've installed the new update - I had some difficulties to download the package and after a while I got it managed - I think I met exactly the time of the update of the update 🙂
I installed the keyboard update on Aug. 10th, 18:00 UTC.

But I agree, it's not a problem of MacOS X but of EFI - that's why I asked for / assumed a pending firmware update for all Macs (perhaps with the exception of the new iMac).

Anyway - thanks for your reply, Doug.

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Answer 3

kestrel9532 Author

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25 points

Aug 11, 2007 1:17 PM in response to Douglas McLaughlin

Ahh... one more thing... 🙂

I don't believe that the keyboard is defective - at least there are absolutely no signs that lead in this direction.

I bought the keyboard in The Apple Store on the Internet and YES, I already placed a call by AppleCare Support. But I thoght, maybe there's a technical guy from Apple sometimes lurking here around...

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Answer 4

Aug 11, 2007 4:32 PM in response to kestrel9532

I would hope to think that a keyboard is a keyboard for standard features. The software updates only apply to the extra/specialized keys on the keyboard. There were reports on the Web that the brand new iMacs' keyboards weren't working correctly in the Apple stores until the software update yesterday. But, it was only the specialized keys that weren't working. You shouldn't need a firmware update to make the Apple/command and "v" keys work!

I have one of the new Bluetooth keyboards on order, but I haven't seen either one yet. Do you know someone else with a Mac that you could test their computer with your keyboard?

-Doug

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Answer 5

Aug 12, 2007 5:06 AM in response to kestrel9532

Hi kestrel9532,

I'm so glad I looked on here, I thought I was the only one having this problem.

I bought 2 of the wired keyboards from our local Apple Store - one to go with my iMac (not the new one sadly) and the other a Mac Mini for my Mum. Both keyboards work fine on the iMac, but neither will work on the Mac Mini. I've made sure that all the new Keyboard updates are installed....still no luck!

I use Refit to switch between Windows and Mac - even this won't work....neither will holding down the Alt key...so at the moment, the new keyboard won't do what I need! I still have the old wired keyboard, so I think for the moment it will be a case of returning the new and stick with the old...unless anyone else has any ideas....? (he says hoping....as I love the new keyboards!!!)

Sorry, but it looks like the Mac Mini firmware won't recognise the new keyboards....for the moment.

Cheers

Paul

Message was edited by: Paul Walker3

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Answer 6

kestrel9532 Author

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25 points

Aug 12, 2007 5:47 AM in response to Paul Walker3

Hi Doug, Hi Paul,

@Doug:

It seems to me that the new keyboard is simply not recognized by the bootloader/EFI/<whatever>. The girl from AppleCare asked me to check wether booting from the installation DVD works (i.e. booting with the "c"-key pressed) - it doesn't. Booting with CMD-s into single user mode doesn't work either.

So maybe you're right concerning the "standard feature", but if there's no keyboard connected there are no features - and "not connected" and "not recognized" seems to be the same here...

The only other Mac I have probably access to is my old G4-Mini which I've sold to a friend of mine. Besides that there's a different bootloader for PowerPC I don't expect an older Mac to recognize this brand new keyboard better. OTOH my old keyboard (a Macally iKeySlim) still works on my Intel-Mini so I see no reason for distrust here.

@Paul:

Nice to know that it's not soley my problem 🙂

If I understand you right you're saying that on your iMac the keyboard is working correctly - even during boot. Is that right? So you are able to get the boot messages on the iMac when booting with CMD-v pressed (with the new aluminum keyboard of course)?

It would be fine to narrow down the problem a bit to be able to make a meaningful bugreport for the guys @Apple...

Thank you both so far!

Matthew

Message was edited by: kestrel9532

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Answer 7

Aug 12, 2007 6:08 AM in response to kestrel9532

Hi Matthew,

Okay....an update.

I've tried the new keyboard so far on a new MacBook, a new Santa Rosa MacBook Pro, a previous model iMac and 2 Mac Minis.....

The keyboard will work on all the models EXCEPT the Mac Minis - they are 1.66GHz Core Duo minis...both with the most up to date firmware released.

Don't get me wrong....with some coaxing, the keyboard will work in Mac OS X 10.4 and Windows Vista...just is as dead as a proverbial Dodo on boot. Even the Caps Lock key won't come on.

So yes, you're right - it's as if the basic EFI and bootloader won't recognise the keyboard. I guess what would be interesting would be to try the keyboard on a PC....they can usually be more fussy about things and may even give an error message on the POST screen (I know mentioning PC on here to some is like blasphemy....so in that case...PC, PC, PC!) 🙂

I'll see what I can do and will keep you updated.

Cheers

Paul

Message was edited by: Paul Walker3

Message was edited by: Paul Walker3

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Answer 8

Aug 12, 2007 6:16 AM in response to Paul Walker3

Additional:

Matthew,

Suddenly remembered that I'd got my work laptop here at home, a new Dell Latitude...so I tried hooking it up to see what would happen. Guess what, it worked! I was able to access the BIOS screen and move around quite freely. Basic keyboard commands also worked in Windows XP.

So this gets curiouser and curiouser....I wonder why they won't work on the Mac Mini! Any thoughts gratefully received, otherwise this boxed one will be going back to the store tomorrow. 😟

Paul

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Answer 9

kestrel9532 Author

Level 1

25 points

Aug 12, 2007 6:37 AM in response to Paul Walker3

Hi Paul,

<OT>
no problem with PCs 🙂 "PC" does not necessarily mean "Windoze" - mine is running FreeBSD which is not so far away from MacOS/Darwin 🙂 And I have to connect my DLT Tapedrive somewhere to backup my MacMini - using 'bacula' works fine for me.
</OT>

I connected the aluminum Keyboard to this PC and could enter the BIOS setup as well. But I could not enter the Adaptec-BIOS of the SCSI-Controller nor the Symbios-BIOS of the second SCSI-Controller. Finally FreeBSD runs fine with both keyboard and MightyMouse 🙂

But this is a 5 year old PC (AMD Duron 800 MHz), so this far more than I expected.

But OK, it seems to be an isolated problem of the MacMini and together with your investigations (congratulations for your hardware zoo 🙂 it should be possible for Apple to reproduce the error and build a fix.

So I will continue to work with AppleCare and report a bug on ADC as well.

Thanks a lot for your help, Paul!

Ciao/BSD - Matthew

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Answer 10

kestrel9532 Author

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25 points

Aug 13, 2007 9:48 AM in response to kestrel9532

Hi again,

just for the records:

I worked with AppleCare and did more or less all resets that are available with the MacMini hardware. That is:

- Booting with CMD-ALT-P-R to do a PROM-Reset (with my old keyboard!)
- Push the plug with the On/Off-key pressed to do a hardware reset

Nothing helped, the new keyboard is still not recognized during boot.

So we have to wait for a software update from apple...

Nonetheless I like the new keyboard and since it works flawlessly once the kernel is loaded I continue using it - the only major drawback is, that I cannot switch to boot Windows via the pressed ALT-key but hey, Parallels Desktop is invented... 🙂

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Answer 11

Aug 13, 2007 10:56 AM in response to kestrel9532

Hi again Matthew,

Glad I could be of some help and a big thanks to you for your help and perseverance in trying to find out why it won't work - it's still a mystery.

I think I've changed my mind as well and am goin to keep the keyboard...not reuturn it; my Dad is (sadly) mainly a Windoze user on his Mac mini so it will be fine for him (he doesn't switch between OSs)....and he really did like the keyboard too.

We'll just have to be patient and see if Apple relase a firmware update that might fix this...fingers crossed.

Anyways, enjoy the new keyboard and your new Mac mini and thanks again!

Best wishes

Paul

Message was edited by: Paul Walker3

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Answer 12

dilb0t

Level 1

0 points

Aug 13, 2007 12:27 PM in response to kestrel9532

I can confirm I have the issue noted here, on my 1.83Ghz Mini, in addition to an issue with the special functions on keys F1-F4 not working.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1083286&tstart=0

Grateful for any suggestions.

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Answer 13

kestrel9532 Author

Level 1

25 points

Aug 13, 2007 12:29 PM in response to Paul Walker3

Hi Paul,

you have to be a bit preseverant to solve (or better: start solving) such kind of problems. It took approx. half an hour on the phone (at my cost) until I came through to the second level support of AppleCare - OK, that's what second level support is for...

At least they promised to escalate the issue. Together with my bug report at ADC Apple cannot argue not to know about it.

<encourage>
Perhaps you should open a call at AppleCare as well...
</encourage> 🙂

I'm a bit surprised though - they obviously simply forgot the Mini during their tests, at least the booting process with that device. So I would be deeply disappointed if they will not correct that mistake. It's no problem to make a mistake but they have to fix it.

Finally: thanks for your compliments. I think if you are an IT professional you have to act as such - that's what I was trying to do.

Have a nice week (and help your Dad to appreciate the Mac) 🙂

Matthew

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Answer 14

kestrel9532 Author

Level 1

25 points

Aug 14, 2007 1:17 PM in response to kestrel9532

Again for the records:

Apple has confirmed my bug report on ADC as a duplicate ⚠ and said, that it's a known issue, which is investigated by engineering... so far so good.

I think we can expect a fix in the forseeable future...

bye bye - Matthew

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Answer 15

Aug 16, 2007 8:02 AM in response to dilb0t

I' ve here the same pb too on my Mac Mini, and like you, i've deduced it's from the rom and not the driver

quite disappointing, because i liked to use both os (i know it is very bad)

hope it will be solved soon

would it ewist a soft under win$ (bad :o ) in order to permit switching to tiger, as it is posible under tiger, without using kb?

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