24p decision re. shooting for TV and documentary simultaneously

Question

24p decision re. shooting for TV and documentary simultaneously

I'm shooting with an old DVX100. My problem:

I'm abroad shooting two "projects" simultaneously; I'm shooting pieces for a national newscast, and I'm also shooting a doc. Now I had been shooting everything at 24p Advanced... this is what I've been doing for years. But the news folks think my footage looks unusual, as news is normally not shot at 24p. The obvious solution would be to shoot everything for the news pieces at 29.9 and shoot everything for the doc at 24pA. The problem is, I'm shooting b-roll for both projects and I don't want to shoot everything twice... I am my own and only video library, so everything has to be available for both projects.

This is the basic question. Is there a way to shoot the project in one format, let's say, shoot everything 24 Advanced, then capturing that footage with either the Advanced pull-down removal for the doc or using normal NTSC capture for the news pieces, OR shoot everything at 24fps Normal and then capture at normal NTSC, or is there another solution. I have tried shooting at 24Advanced then importing using the normal (non-advanced) pulldown for the news pieces, but the footage always looks a little more pixillated. Is that just because you're fitting more frames into a tighter space, or is it because I'm importing the 24A footage in a non-advanced pulldown way? As I understand it, the footage is being captured on tape at 29.9 anyway, so technically even if I shot it at 24fps I should be able to capture it at 29.9?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

PowerBook G4, Mac OS X (10.4.10), Final Cut Pro 5.0.4

Posted on Sep 4, 2007 7:34 AM

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Answer 1

hanumang

Level 6

9,250 points

Sep 4, 2007 7:48 AM in response to Kim Brunhuber

I'd shoot at 24p - what you're calling 24fps Normal - and not 24pA.

That way, your motion cadence will still be acceptable for broadcast at 29.97 and, probably using Cinema Tools, you can remove the pulldown material to edit at 23.98 for your doc.

Not sure I quite understand how you're getting pixilation by "importing 24pA in a non-advanced pulldown way." Would you mind clarifying that?

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Answer 2

Sep 4, 2007 8:12 AM in response to Kim Brunhuber

The other option would be to shoot 24PA as you have been, but convert it for the news media by outputting it back to tape afterwards. FCP will add a standard 3:2 pulldown and the news folks will be happy.

Patrick

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Answer 3

Sep 5, 2007 10:31 AM in response to Patrick Sheffield

Thanks for your replies... I guess to simplify my question: if I shoot at 24A and then capture the material using the normal NTSC pulldown (not the advanced pulldown removal), will it alter the quality of what I shot at 24A? If not, the ideal solution would seem to be to shoot everything at 24A, then I can either capture what I need for the doc using the advanced pulldown removal, and capture the same footage for the news pieces using the normal NTSC capture method and edit it on a 29.9 timeline.

Second question regarding your suggestion of outputting to tape: if I shoot at 24A and output to tape, will it look like it was shot at 29.9? If so, what's the point of shooting 24A?

Many thanks,
Kim

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Answer 4

hanumang

Level 6

9,250 points

Sep 6, 2007 7:24 AM in response to Kim Brunhuber

24p Advanced (24pA) doesn't use normal NTSC pulldown, which is probably why your news colleagues think it looks odd.

You seem to operating under the notion that, when capturing, FCP either adds or corrects pulldown. That is not the case. FCP can strip advanced pulldown and that's it. It cannot strip standard pulldown (you need to use Cinema Tools for that) nor can it alter the cadence of 24pA material into 24p. The key to that second part is that 24p material, because it uses standard 3:2 pulldown, doesn't look odd at all if the pulldown isn't removed (so you can edit it at 29.97).

The point of shooting 24pA? Others can probably make stronger arguments for it, but in my mind the major advantage is that you can strip the pulldown as you capture, requiring less disk space and time upfront. With 24p material, you capture as 29.97 (requiring more disk space) then you use Cinema Tools to strip the pulldown (requiring more time).

Most folks would argue that if you shoot 24pA you must strip the pulldown and edit it at 23.98. If you're printing back out to a FireWire deck, FCP automatically adds standard pulldown to make it 29.97.

As I said earlier, if you're shooting footage to be incorporated in both 23.98 and 29.97 projects, shoot your stuff as 24p, not 24pA.

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