JVC GZ-HD7 .tod files, playback stutters in QT but playback fine in iMovie

Question

JVC GZ-HD7 .tod files, playback stutters in QT but playback fine in iMovie

I know there had been posts in other threads about this or similar, but I see that most had been answered, so I though it best to create a new thread for my specific questions.

I am able to convert my .tod files either in QTpro (using the JVC provided plugin for QT and simply doing an export) or using MPEG-SC 1.93beta. What I am trying to figure out though, is what has worked for others in getting the best quality from the .tod files, specifically when filming in 1920x1080 and not 1440 cbr mode.

It was recommended to use the Apple intermediate codec in a different thread. I have tried this and the h.264. The h.264 had the largest file size after export and the least amount of stuttering but it was still there. As a test I used only a 2 min clip.

It isn't a deal breaker since once the .mov's are imported into the timeline of iMovieHD they playback perfectly. But I would like to be sure that I am exporting correctly and able to playback the raw clips in QT.

Lastly, could anyone share with me how long it is taking to convert their clips and what methods used. It took me 1 hour to export a 9 min clip to .mov, and even longer for a straight import into iMovie without converting the .tod file first (drag the .tod to the clip pane.)

Thanks.

Macbook Pro & G5 PPC, Mac OS X (10.4.9)

Posted on Sep 13, 2007 9:49 AM

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Answer 1

Sep 13, 2007 10:22 AM in response to dvdflashbacks

That's a lot of data and only a very high end machine could expect playback without dropping frames. Use the Movie Inspector to view the frame rate during playback.
The AIC codec will be easier than H.264 on the CPU but you don't want to use AIC for the final project.
My Mac mini can't even play 720 files without dropping frames (any codec).
Conversion from MPEG-2 "video object" formats to QuickTime is also based on the power of the computer doing the work. My machine took 8 minutes to convert 6 seconds of a 720 HD file. Now that you've got a general idea of the time of the conversion you'll see why most of us do them while we sleep.
BTW. Thanks for grabbing a copy of my PDF!

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Answer 2

Sep 13, 2007 10:47 AM in response to QuickTimeKirk

Hey QTKirk,

Yeah, I was up till the wee hours in the morning reading over the .pdf and trying to figure out what I was doing wrong. It is a pretty massive .pdf BTW. Lots of great info in there! I hope to use it as a resource to assist me with finally putting better quality and faster loading videos onto my web site.

At this point I am somewhat stuck with the 1920x1080 resolution of these clips, since my first experiments with this new camera were clips of my son and my brother's wedding. Moving forward I will most likely move down to the 1440 resolution and see how well that does. I just want to be able to keep the best quality and widescreen filming for my projects.

I guess I had hoped that the 8 gigs of ram in my machine would have made a bigger difference, but as you said it is a lot of data to process and I can't afford to get an 8-core G5 yet.

But the really puzzling thing for me still is that the .mov clips playback is fine inside of iMovieHD with no stuttering or sign of frame loss, but not in QTPro. I thought iMovie was dependant on QT for it's rendering so this is why I thought I must be doing something wrong in the conversion process.

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Answer 3

Sep 13, 2007 10:53 AM in response to dvdflashbacks

I can't even install iMovie 7 on my machine so I don't know all of what it does.
My assumption is that nothing is created until export and that the "preview" you're seeing is actually Photo-JPEG codec.
Others can confirm or disprove me.

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Answer 4

Sep 13, 2007 11:27 AM in response to QuickTimeKirk

Actually the playback I am referring to is all after export/conversion from .tod to .mov.

Whether viewing the .tod file in realtime under QT or after the exported file to .mov, the playback is jerky and stutters. Based on the time to import the .tod into iMovie, I can only assume that it is converting from a .tod to .mov or other codec during the import process.

The fact that I can convert using QTpro at all is still a plus since I always had to use MPEG-SC for .mod (JVC's previous file type for SD video files.)

The real test will be once I have finished the project in iMovie and then burned a test DVD or converted to web size and see how the quality is then.

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Answer 5

Sep 13, 2007 11:38 AM in response to dvdflashbacks

They ""conversion" process you refer to during import to iMovie is actually Photo-JPEG "thumbnail" images. Your source file is not converted until it is exported.
DVD files will be SD not HD. Best export to Web from iMovie 7 is only 960X540 dimensions.

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Answer 6

Sep 13, 2007 1:49 PM in response to QuickTimeKirk

I guess I am a little confused then, if iMovie is previewing/displaying the .mov source file as a Photo-JPEG type, then shouldn't I export as this codec to begin with? The playback is smooth and clear in iMovieHD, but I was under the impression that h.264 was the best codec to use.

With regards to exporting to DVD, since iDVD doesn't support hd/bd yet, then naturally my video project will be drastically compressed in the process for standard DVD (480i/p native resolution I believe.) That being the case should I not try to convert the .tod files in the best quality options(as I have been doing with the h.264 settings in QTpro.)

With all of my previous projects that were SD footage, I always used MPEG-SC and exported as AIC. The quality was always decent on the finished DVDs but not as good as the original .mov and when I view footage directly from my new HD camera on an HDtv it is stunning. I naturally want to achieve the best possible resolution for output on all forms of media be it DVD or web.

As for export from iMovie7 for web, would it be better to export from 06? Or would I be best to export in Full Quality from iMovie and then use QTpro to create the web stream version?

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Answer 7

Sep 13, 2007 2:04 PM in response to dvdflashbacks

The only advantage of using the Photo-JPEG codec is its speed. You'll get better sized files and more versatility by exporting using H.264.
Again, I don't have the software but I would expect if you opened iDVD your file would be there for DVD creation.
If iMovie 7 works like previous version you should have export to QuickTime options available. No need to export to full quality and then export again. One iMovie event could be made into dozens of different settings. The iMovie 7 export to gallery allows you to upload multiple versions of the same file.
H.264 Video is the best option for both local and Web based files. Some viewers (those that can't install QuickTime 7) will not be able to view your files, however.

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Answer 8

Sep 13, 2007 9:23 PM in response to QuickTimeKirk

Hey QTkirk,

Thanks for all the advice. I am now just stuck watching paint dry so to speak, as i convert another file.

So I think I have determined that MPEG-SC is definitely the way to go for me. It seems to be much faster than QTpro for these files. It is still dog slow and I don't know what i am gonna do when I need to convert the rest of these (nearly 5 hours worth of footage.)

I just hope that converting 1440 cbr mode footage will be faster than this.

Also, this is really stupid, but I have never set up a batch convert for file in MPEG-SC...Can you tell me how this is done so I can start a batch and come back to this machine in a week or so.

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Answer 9

Sep 14, 2007 6:27 AM in response to dvdflashbacks

I've never had the need to do "batches" from Streamclip so I don't know the steps.
I used to do a one minute clip at over twenty different settings until I got the best combination of quality, file size and speed. You can't do more than two or three with your HD files unless you also reduce the file dimension at export.

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Answer 10

Jon Walker

Level 6

19,489 points

Sep 14, 2007 7:31 AM in response to dvdflashbacks

Also, this is really stupid, but I have never set up a batch convert for file in MPEG-SC...Can you tell me how this is done so I can start a batch and come back to this machine in a week or so.

As with most things, the specific workflow may depend on a number of different factors. In this case, it may depend on the specific version of MPEG Streamclip in use and the specific nature/variation in processes required. In all instances, however, batch processing is intiated by selecting the "Batch List" List menu option. If you are using the latest 1.9b3 version, you can then:

1) If performing a series of the same, simple, basic conversions/Demux operations (e.g., dumux a all of the SG1 season 1 VOBs to elementary streams), then simply press the "Add Files" button in the "Batch List" window and enter the specific information as requested. (I.e., select source files, how to prepare them, what conversion/demux operation is to be performed, specify the target name/destination, etc.)

2) If you are performing more complex actions (e.g., converting a series of 16 x 9 source files to different cropped/scaled aspect ratios like 1.85:1, 2.35:1, and 2.40:1, then I would use the normal "work" window to select each source file and enter the different/unique settings desired for each and then press the "Batch List" button in the "Work" window to add destination file information and transfer all of your settings to the batch list.

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Answer 11

Sep 14, 2007 12:07 PM in response to Jon Walker

Hi Jon,

Thanks for the info. Yes I am using 1.93b. I will try this work flow out tonight and see how it goes. Also maybe you could enlighten me on a quality settings question with MPEG-SC.

I have tried changing the quality down to around 80% for the h.264 export and i didn't notice a real difference which was nice. The file size was much smaller though and the clip duration was shorter. As QTK mentioned earlier that he had done trial and error with the settings, I was wondering how low you thought would be acceptable for the quality setting without a noticeable loss. In 100% full 1920x1080 hd res, one of my clips that was only 9 minutes long went from a 1.1gb original .tod file to 10.1 gb .mov file. This was a huge difference and not feasible since I have 5 hours of footage and don't have 5tb of space to work with. Not to mention the time it takes to import into iMovie or FCX after already waiting 3+ hours for the MPEG-SC initial conversion to .mov format.

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Answer 12

Jon Walker

Level 6

19,489 points

Sep 14, 2007 12:46 PM in response to dvdflashbacks

Also maybe you could enlighten me on a quality settings question with MPEG-SC.

Normally I would recommend using AIC since it would allow your footage to be compatible with almost any HD editor in use on the Mac. However, if file size is of primary importance, would say to go ahead using the H.264/AAC compression format and limit dimensions to 960 x 540 to conserve file space.

As to the actual quality slider, that depends on your mode. If you are using the multi-pass encode setting, then run some 30-second light/dark action sequences at 50% to see how it looks. You can increase this as you wish, but keep an eye out for wild swings in the data rate. High quality settings can cause your instantaneous video data rate to swing back and forth between about 1/3 of your target data rate to 3 times your target rate and this can cause severe software and hardware problems on occasion. Moreover, multi-pass at highest quality settings drastically increase your conversion processing times by increasing the number passes. The single-pass mode would allow you to use a higher quality setting, but even then, I rarely use anything over 80% with good source footage. As a general rule of thumb here, "less is more" when adjusting the slider and will usually depend on your personal preferences as to the "hadrness" of your videos as finally displayed on your monitor/HDTV.

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Answer 13

Oct 29, 2007 9:02 PM in response to dvdflashbacks

Hello Folks

I am new to this group so hello all.
I just pick up a GZ HDZ

I am using my PC to convert TOM to MPEG then I can improt to what ever.
This is superfast. But you need a PC. The conversion time on a Mac is really
long. That said, I am having problems with dropped frames, intermittent sound, slow jumpy picture, the whole 9 yards. Any thoughts

Because of no Headphone monitor I have a "gorilla" tactic... until you go wireless get yourself a mini digital recorded
with a mic & headphone jack. Y connect mice to camera & recording device
"Presto" you have a light weight headphone monitor and also a recorder for field notes.

Regards_ James

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Answer 14

Oct 29, 2007 10:26 PM in response to dvdflashbacks

I've been converting .tod files with QT Pro and MPEG-SC and the conversion is flawless. The only problem that I experienced was when I tried to do batch convert using QT Pro. The audio will run out of sync, so I have been using MPEG-SC.

I have not experienced any dropped frames, though. If you are extremely picky, I would say that the only thing that I have noticed is a slight change in brighness.

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Answer 15

Oct 30, 2007 6:36 PM in response to Jon Walker

iMovie 08 does everything in AIC. Photo-JPEG is not used.

There is an eBook on the HD7 and editing: http://home.mindspring.com/~d-v-c/

There is a on-line HD7 group: http://www.dvinfo.net/conf/forumdisplay.php?f=156

PS: "However, if file size is of primary importance, would say to go ahead using the H.264/AAC compression format and limit dimensions to 960 x 540 to conserve file space."

I would suggest using HDV since that is what the HD7 records. No change in file size.

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