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HDTV/ Mac Mini Resolution Issues

I'm having some issues (apparently along with a lot of other people) getting my new Mac Mini to play nice with my HDTV. That's the main reason I bought it, and it's just not working out.

TV: Toshiba 26HL66. It's a 26" LCD, 720P, native resolution of 1366 x 768.
Mac Mini: New, 2.0 Ghz C2D model.

I've tried using DVD to HDMI, I've tried using DVI to VGA. I've tried SwitchResX and DisplayConfigX to tweak settings. Here's what I end up with:

HDMI: Far superior image quality. Using DisplayConfigX I was unable to get rid of overscan at the top of the screen (menu bar was cut off no matter what adjustments I made to the timing) and I was unable to remove the overscan on the left side of the monitor. Too bad, because the image quality is amazing.

VGA: My display isn't recognized, and my screen's native resolution isn't available (1366 x 768) as an option by default. Using DisplayConfigX I was able to set the resolution, but the display looks far inferior to the HDMI connection.

So now the question: What should I do?
Option 1: Consider my experiment a failure, and return the Mac Mini?
Option 2: Keep tinkering with DisplayConfigX and/or SwitchResX in the hopes that I'll eventually get it right?
Option 3: Buy a new TV? If so - any HDTV's under $900, and 32" or smaller known to work well with the Mac Mini using any type of connector?
Option 4: Wait for Leopard to come out and hope that some of these issues are resolved?

Mac Mini C2D, Mac OS X (10.4.10), Display: Toshiba 26HL66 HDTV

Posted on Sep 25, 2007 10:08 AM

Reply
32 replies

Sep 25, 2007 12:10 PM in response to Alan Abentrod

Hi Alan:

Thanks for the response. However, I've been quite content with the display on my 720P set for TV, XBOX, DVD, etc...

Even if I were to buy another TV it would likely be 720P. That being said, I find it hard to believe (and a little ludicrous) that there is no possible way to get a 720P (or more specifically 1366x768) output from my Mac Mini.

Sep 25, 2007 9:31 PM in response to DayveeB

You should be able to get 1366 x 768 to come out the mini's DVI port, resorting to SwitchRes X if you have to. But there is no guarantee the TV will make a nice display from it. It sounds like your TV has forced operation of a scaler over HDMI. This is very common in TVs unfortunately. Such TVs usually designate VGA for computer connection purposes. Does your TV's user manual make any mention of computer connections? If yes, does it say how or if it can be done over HDMI? I couldn't find the manual for your TV online but found a manual for the 26HL67. It has a lot of information in it about making computer connections and it looks like it has a Native mode, which means the scaler can be bypassed. There are also settings for vertical and horizontal position, which sounds like it could be useful in your case.

Sep 26, 2007 3:19 AM in response to DayveeB

I just recently got an hdtv and hooked it up with my G4 mini. At first I tried connecting it with hdmi to dvi and got a blank screen, don't know why and I didn't try tinkering with settings.

Next I tried vga to vga, since the tv doesn't have a dvi port, and I must say the display looks awesome to me. I'm pretty much satisfied at this point.

Just a thought.

Oct 5, 2007 4:11 AM in response to DayveeB

The Mac mini has a built-in Intel GMA 950 video chip. This in the PC world is not even considered to be tweakable for TVs at all (although in Mac OS X you can a bit). ATI and Nvidia chips offer far more options for tweaking.

The main cause of the problem is that while 720p TVs are described as having 720 lines by 1280 wide, they almost all actually have a 'real' resolution of typically 768 lines and 1366 wide. This however is a resolution not considered to be a standard one in the computer world, nor does it match HDTV video resolutions. What's worse, is that most TVs fail to advertise this resolution properly via the DVI/HDMI EDI signalling so the computer cannot detect it and drops down instead to 1280x720.

As standard a Mac mini will show 1280x720 in overscan mode meaning it fully fills the screen but the image is slightly too big resulting in the edges being off the visible screen (effectively chopped off). It is possible to turn off overscan on the Mac mini but then it will not fill the screen fully it will be showing 1280x720 in the middle of the 1366x768 TV resulting in black borders all around.

It is possible with DisplayConfigX or SwitchResX to 'tweak' the video settings, but when I tried this with a Mac mini and a Sony Bravia 40" 1366x768 TV I could not get a perfect result. Different TVs needs slightly different settings when tweaking them.

If only the TV makers used 1280x720 (which is what the video resolution is after all) then everything would match. As was being implied in another reply, if you have a 1080p TV then its real resolution is indeed 1080 lines by 1920 pixels wide which is the same as videos and the same as a computer expects, and therefore because everything matches you do not get these sorts of problems.

Regarding VGA quality, I have tried a Mac mini with two different generations of Sony Bravia 40" and on the older one the quality was awful, far too bad to tolerate, on the newer one, it actually looked very good. With VGA you do not get these 1280x720 vs. 1366x768 conflicts since the TV does properly advertise its resolution to the computer (and therefore the Mac mini will set itself to a matching 1366x768 resolution automatically).

So to summarise, TV manufacturers are idiots, the Mac mini can be tweaked (a bit) but not enough, and if you did have a 1080p TV then you would have no problems.

I had hoped the recent upgrade of the Mac mini would have also included a newer and better video chip but alas this did not happen (maybe next time).

PS. There have been quite a few reports saying Mac OS X 10.4.10 has limited the Mac mini to 1080i instead of 1080p which it is perfectly capable of doing. Mac OS X 10.5 might fix this but other than than the 1280x720 vs. 1366x768 problem will not be improved by Leopard (this is not a software problem it is dumb *** TV maker problem and the limited video chip in the Mac mini).

PPS. You could use a 24" or similar size computer LCD screen instead of a TV, this would give give a similar size screen but avoid the TV resolution complexities. The Apple Cinema HD 24" gives a full 1080p solution (technically it is 1200 lines i.e. 16:10 ratio so you will have very small black borders top and bottom when showing 16:9 video) and you can of course use Elgato EyeTV with a TV tuner on the Mac.

Oct 9, 2007 8:23 AM in response to John Lockwood

Wow! most complete answer to these irritating HDTV vs. Mac mini problems I've seen so far! I was hoping Leopard would be the panacea to these issues but I don't think it will solve my 1080i scaling problems with my Hitachi now... boohoo! back to the delightful choice of overscan or fat black borders... It's especially frustrating because my Apple TV looks wonderful on the HDTV and fills every pixel... do you know the techie reason behind why this works OK, John?

Andy.

Oct 9, 2007 9:15 PM in response to Scottish_Andy

With the AppleTV, Apple was careful to keep important things away from the edges of the screen. That way, even if overscan is taking place (and it often is), the user is unaware of it and doesn't care because nothing important has gone off the edges like the OS X menu bar or the dock. So it's not that Apple TV is doing any better a job of it than the mini, its just that we don't notice.

Oct 10, 2007 2:15 AM in response to DayveeB

Hi I've had 2 Toshiba LCDs and have been able to display 720p+ over VGA and HDMI and a Mac Mini.

I used to have a 32WLT66 which was connected via DVI->VGA. I used SwitchResX to configure the TV to display 1366x768 with just the tiniest bit of overscan (could clearly see dock and menu), otherwise the Mini could drive the TV at 1280x720 natively from memory.

The other one is a 42" 1080p model which I use DVI->HDMI and it fits 1920x1080 perfectly.

Oct 10, 2007 3:05 AM in response to BSteely

BSteely wrote:
With the AppleTV, Apple was careful to keep important things away from the edges of the screen. That way, even if overscan is taking place (and it often is), the user is unaware of it and doesn't care because nothing important has gone off the edges like the OS X menu bar or the dock. So it's not that Apple TV is doing any better a job of it than the mini, its just that we don't notice.


Wow! You learn something every day!! Thanks! So, the edges of my "full screen" videos are lost to overscan. 😟 Wish I didn't know that now!!

I messed about with DisplayConfigX and SwitchResX for ages with my new mac mini and eventually gave up with them - I actually find myself using it more through VNC now than on the TV... Having a G5 imac and a G4 Powerbook, I send stuff to it to process the "big jobs", use iMovie for my MPEG2 camera, and really just use it as central storage for tunes, photo and vid libraries - I had aspirations of using at as a media centre (which I think most TV connectors do) so it's all left me feeling abit disappointed... I'll be sure to check the compatability on the next TV I buy through these discussions... thanks all!

Oct 10, 2007 3:44 AM in response to BSteely

BSteely wrote:
With the AppleTV, Apple was careful to keep important things away from the edges of the screen. That way, even if overscan is taking place (and it often is), the user is unaware of it and doesn't care because nothing important has gone off the edges like the OS X menu bar or the dock. So it's not that Apple TV is doing any better a job of it than the mini, its just that we don't notice.


I don't have an Apple TV myself but I am sure you are right. This by the way is called the "TV Safe Zone" and is also used when making standard DVDs, for example if you use iDVD you can turn on the display of the "TV Safe Zone" so you can ensure your critical items do not get chopped off, or if you are making a commercial DVD that your menu choices displayed by the DVD also do not get chopped off.

The size of the "TV Safe Zone" will differ for standard resolution PAL and NTSC (as they are different resolutions), but should be the same for HDTV (as they are the same 720p and 1080p resolutions for both PAL and NTSC HDTV).

If you ever see 'the making of' type programs showing filming on a set and them looking through the viewfinder or later in an editing suite, you may notice a rectangle within the image, this is the same 'TV Safe Area' so they know that the actors/props are positioned within the safe area.

By the way, the original reason for using 'overscan' and the TV safe zone, is that 'ye olde CRT' type TVs could not display a picture properly or accurately all the way to the edge of the screen. Partly this was due to curvature, partly this was due to the phosphor not being reliable at the edge, partly because the old cathode emitters could not aim reliably to the edge, and partly because CRT TVs are not pixel level accurate devices, so to ensure the picture always 'fills' the screen they overscan it.

Computer CRT screens (anyone else remember them 😉 ) always ran in underscan mode so as to ensure all the information was visible.

Oct 10, 2007 8:52 AM in response to John Lockwood

Curse you, Marconi, and your lack of forward-thinking! 😉 We could have had some bizarre monitors now if we'd gone with the Baird system, eh? Camcorders with chemical packs etc... I digress...

Thanks for the history lesson, John.

Still it's a disappointment in the age of VESA and ITU that the big guys are still not adhering to the standards... otherwise they wouldn't have me searching the web for a new 1080p Telly... oh I think I see now...

Oct 24, 2007 10:21 AM in response to DayveeB

Might be late to join this discussion, but by a weird google result, I ended up here. ( I wanted to see if there was any hope of getting 16:9 shape from the Mac Mini NTSC adapter.)

I have a Toshiba 32HLC56, and it sounds very similar to your set. I have it connected to a Mini, and I think I can share some pointers that will help...

Don't bother with the HDMI input. I know that sounds nuts, but you won't get the reults you want. If your set is anything like mine, the TV will overscan anything input on the HDMI. The only way to get pixel for pixel is through VGA.

You will need to create a custom res using something like SwitchResX or Display ConfigX. You can install SwitchResX and use just the custom resolution feature for free and ignore all the for-pay options (Set SwitchResX to not launch on login.)

I created a 1360x768 at 85Hz custom res using the GTF formula (SwitchresX can use that formula to fill in all the nitty gritty resolution details like front porch, back porch, etc.)

Although the Mini is one of the few that can handle 1366x768, I don't recommend it. Stick with 1360x768. Several programs were going bonkers at the 1366 res (Apple Remote Desktop kept locking up on me.) Also, for some reason, I had a much better time getting 1360x768 to center on the screen. I left 3 blank rows of pixels on the left and right using the TVs PC image controls, and the rest of the screen was 1:1 pixel matching. Also, also, the color on VGA looked much better. I couldn't fix the gama issues on HDMI with colorsync.

Also, if you use 60Hz (or more precicely 59.94Hz) then the TV will overscan. Anything that comes in at 60Hz on the VGA port will overscan also.

Once you have your custom res in, reboot and select it. You may see your image squished into a 4:3 shape on the TV. Use the pic size button (I think) on the TV remote to get it to fill 16:9. Then use the PC image controls to center it. I didn't have to mess with H-Size, only H-Position and one of the other settings that got me finer control over H-size.

I don't like watching movies using the 85Hz res even though it has the best image quality. Movie playback stutters a bit, I'm betting because of the refresh mismatch. I keep both a 60 and an 85 Hz setting handy depending on what I'm doing. I have tried 96Hz and 120Hz, but the TV won't take it. 120Hz would be the best since it is a multiple of both 24 and 30. For some reason, the TV hated 72Hz as well.

HDTV/ Mac Mini Resolution Issues

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