Shooting HD with a 4x3 deliverable

I'm confused. You need it to be HD, but 4:3? Why? No HD format is 4:3...they are ALL 16:9.

Now, getting a 4:3 standard def image out of 16:9 HD is easy. Get a high def capture card like the kona or decklink series, or Matrox MXO. They can downconvert when you output and do a center extraction.

Shane

Yes Shane is right, HD is by nature a 16:9 aspect ratio. The DVCPro 720p format squashes the width to 960 but when played its brought back to 1280. If you don't have or don't want to spend the cash on a proper HD card like Shane mention (which you really should consider doing, the Kona 3 series are excellent at up / down conversions like this) you can get a pretty decent SD 4:3 clip by bringing the HD clip in to FCP and dropping in to a an SD 4:3 timeline and scaling down until the width is 720.

What's the format of the final deliverable? Tape? DVD? Computer files?

x

D5 isn't Letterboxed...it is full frame 16:9. Well, anamorphic, but it doesn't play back letterboxed.

You want an SD version? Export your HD version as a self contained QT movie. Make an SD sequence (DV50 for example), import the movie, drop it into that sequence...resize it to make it 4:3...render. Output.

Shane

I guess that YOU CAN...that is possible. I have seen a film that was 4:3 HD within a PILLARBOXED (that is the term) frame. So, it is possible.

HOWEVER...no one will air HD in that manner. The place where I did see that...they did blow up 4:3 DV50 to HD and pillarboxed it. But then they couldn't air it because...well...no one airs HD in that manner. Just isn't done. So we had to then capture that footage using a Kona 3, and resize it to chop off the top and bottom. Quality loss...yes. But that was the only way that it would air. You can also dub it and use a Terranex to blow it up and resize.

So yes, it can be done...but WHY? It just isn't an accepted format in my experience.

Shane

(Letterbox on the sides is called Pillarbox.)

If SD is what you have to deliver, someday you'll need to downconvert to that.
Your benefit from HD is that the source was a high res, so the result will more accurate than shooting on SD to start with. No worries about that.

'Hybrid' doesn't exist.
Find out in what to deliver. PAL/NSTC SD?

If you have to deliver 4x3 then create a 4x3 sequence. (NTSC uncompressed or so). Drop your HD in the 4x3 sequence. FCP will letterbox it and scale it down to full width. (soory, no exact math, because I don't no where your coming from nor where your downconvert is going to). Now open the clip in the viewer and adjust the scale so that the picture becomes 4x3 full frame, losing some on the left and right side.

Is this what you mean?
All the best
Rienk

Edit: So in the end, you will not be pillarboxing at all. If so, you would have a 16:9 frame with a 4:3 picture in it with black bars on the left and right side.
The method described in this post is 'Pan and Scan'. Remember that you can move your image to the left or the right to reframe for a better look in some cases.

Message was edited by: Rienk

Rienk,

not sure if this has been answered yet, but earlier you were asking about the right pixel values for the HD frame, since 960x720 is 4:3 ratio... the picture will be stretched in the 960x720 frame (like how anamorphic is stretched in 4:3 and then flattened out to proper 16:9 during playback) the actual width is 1280. 1280x720 = 16:9

1440 x 1080. If that sounds suspiciously like HDV, it is - except HDV is anamorphic. From 720P, 960 x 720 becomes 1280 x 720 when displayed, so pulling that down to 960 is correct. FWIW, our film deliverables often specify a pan-and-scan 4x3 master on HDCAM SR, which is the image sitting within the middle pixels. Most don't need it actually cropped, just located so that when it is side cut, the remaining image sits where it should.

...oops... read the post incorrectly.

Message was edited by: James M.

Hi dgwaff35,

I believe my method of creating sequences for DVDSP menus will help you out.

Answer Title: 4x3 DVDSP Menus from 16x9 anamorphic video
Goal: Create 4x3 scaled videos from 16x9 anamorphic asset
Asset: NTSC - CCIR 601 / DV ( 720 x 480 ) from Sony DCR SR-300

Solution:
Create a sequence; cmd-0 to see settings;
Turn on Pixel Aspect Ratio anamorphic 16:9 ( this makes the Canvas look like wide screen )
Select custom frame size; Set WidthxHeight 480x480 ( Canvas now looks 4:3)

Because:
Pixels are 16:9 so while 640x480 is in 4:3 ratio, the pixels are wide so the frame is wide
Meaningfully mnemonically: 480 is three-quarters of 16 so reducing the frame width to 480 gives you fewer pixels wide but the wider pixels push the outside dimensions of the canvas to the 4:3 you need for the DVDSP menu display.

Caveat:
When loading a clip into the sequence, say No to setting the Seq Settings to the Clip settings.
You've customized the sequence and you don't want the clip to change you sequence customization.

Verification:
I saved this as a QT Ref Movie; loaded it to a DVDSP 4:3 Menu and it looked the way I expected.

Model: G5 Power PC 2004 4.5 Gig Mem, 2.5 Tb Storage
Other Details: Sony DCR-SR300 Camcorder