Is Logic right for me? A classical musician.

Logic will provide you with the neccessary tools for producing and mixing your stuff (state of the art Midi Sequenzer, reverb, dynamics and so on) but it all comes down to the Library you´re using and the amount of money you spend on it. The better the samples sound, the longer they are (to avoid looping) and the more different articulations/playing styles the Library contains the more realistic your sound will get. The orchestral sounds that come with Logic are nothing near to what you imagine and you should invest into a good Library which again depends on your taste.

I completely agree with Sampleconstruct. Logic is terrific at producing orchestral music, but the final sound depends mostly on the instrumental sample libraries that you use. I've done some very realistic orchestral work which required mixing of libraries - one will have great strings but be weak in woodwinds, another might have a great oboe and clarinet, but the bassoon won't cut it, a third might have great brass and bassoon but not a good solo trumpet, etc. You get the idea.

Over time most of us have spent a lot of money on different instruments, and every year new and often better ones come out. The more expensive libraries are usually higher quality, and often their upgrades are free, so they may work out to be cost-effective in the long run, but you have to decide how much you are willing to pay. Search this discussion group and you'll find hundreds if not thousands of messages about the different libraries.

Garritan Personal Orchestra is my favorite at that price, and I personally think it is hard to beat. It has a nice range of articulations for most instruments, and is a great compromise between quality and price. However, for that price it is not going to sound as good as libraries that cost 10-20 times as much. I find that I can't create completely realistic orchestral sound with it alone, although it does blend very nicely with other instruments and will fill out a texture very, very well.

So I would suggest that Logic Studio is probably the perfect application for you, as again there is nothing at that price that approaches it. As for the libraries, take your time, listen to a lot of them, and decide for yourself what you want to pay and what has the sound you are after. Most good libraries have demos, and even though these are usually done by highly-skilled professionals (sometimes with a bit of sonic "sweetening") you can usually get a fair idea of what they can sound like. And of course, there is a learning curve for the libraries, just as there is for Logic and every other application.

Good luck and happy hunting (for sound libraries that is)!

I agree, I am a classical guitar player. I use EXS24 logic Sampler with an excellent sampler Library (Sonic Implants). With Logic you have the best Midi software on the planet, and tons of reverbs Mixing and mastering tools. Classical music works better with Midi than Pop instrument IMO, maybe because
Perfect timing is expected? Pop music needs a lot of emotions that is hard to reproduce with Midi.
Sometime in Pop music NOT playing with the excat tempo is better. which is not acceptable in Classical music, expression comes on time. You carry the emotions in other ways.
Logic is perfect for classical music and/or Pop.
Eric

I've just bought LogicPro8 but it doesn't seem to have the orchestral instruments I was expecting. eg. Where is just a plain clarinet or oboe? Has something gone wrong in the instrallation? Or are these type of sounds not provided? I've searched really hard for a complete list of instruments/sounds that come with Logic but can't find anything. Can anyone help?

Logic comes with a fairly comprehensive library of orchestral sounds. You may have overlooked the installation of Jam Packs, but once they're installed you'll see a clarinet, oboe, everything else. They appear both as EXS24 instruments and as Garage Band instruments. This library is a fine starting point, maybe not quite as comprehensive and the quality is not as consistent as orchestral libraries such as EWQLSO or Vienna. OTOH, even the lowliest collections might contain an indispensable gem for you, and the most expensive ones will have tons of stuff you just can't use.

Logic is great for classical or orchestral music. Lots of film composers use it. I sometimes use it without any reference to bars and beats, like recording to tape. Works great. Of course you can also play to a click, write in all your meter and tempo changes, whatever you want.

One thing not yet mentioned - volume or expression pedal. No hardware, software, or sound library will make crescendos and decrescendos for you where you need them. Some truly mediocre sounds can come to life and sound like music if you play expressively; the best sounds will sound like an organ if you don't. With wind and string instruments this can't be done with fingers alone. Pedal is my favorite method, freeing both hands for playing, or making one hand available for other expressive control. Other options are mod wheel, sliders, or breath control.

I write mostly classical or classically-oriented music, and to reiterate a point already made, the key to getting a realistic sound from orchestrations comes from mixing sample libraries.

How convincing your orchestrations will sound will often come down to whether or not you have the samples available that offer you the ability to create that sound. For example, if your woodwind arsenal consisted only of the GPO flutes, your ability to use them to realize any particular part is going to be limited by such things as:

1. the natural attack characteristic of its samples
2. how quickly the natural vibrato kicks in (if at all), and how wide the vibrato is
3. particular tonal character of the samples
4. release characteristics
5. how many articulations of that sound are available

So let's say you're trying to realize a fast staccatissimo part using the GPO flutes. They don't offer a staccato or staccatissimo articulation for flute, so your only choice is to use the straight "legato" flutes and see if would work. Well, chances are that the attack characteristic of that sound will be too "mushy" and the tonal character not bright enough. Maybe the release would be a little too long too.

Well, the release characteristic is adjustable by a parameter called "length". So you can tweak that, making it shorter, but the other inherent characteristics of the sound still won't be right. If you attempted to use this sound in your orchestration, the flutes won't speak well, and when heard on its own the part will be very "keyboardy" sounding.

The only solution is to have access to some other sample library that provides you with staccato/staccatissimo articulations. Or, as chance would have it, you might find that the non-staccato "normal" flute sounds offered by some other library would have a sharp enough attack to help you realize the part.

As an aside, most bassoon samples will let you play staccato and legato parts without having to change articulations. There is no rule saying that if you write staccato, portato, or tenuto that you must switch to staccato, portato, or tenuto-played samples. Sometimes the basic "normal" or "legato" version of a sample instrument will let you achieve realistic articulations (particularly note length) simply by keyboard playing technique.

But back to the flute. GPO offers a nice flutter-tongue articulation, but not samples of trills. Of course if you have the chops you can play in your trills with a normal legato flute sound. But again, depending on the tempo and style of the music, the notes may or may not speak correctly with any particuarly library's samples.

And what if you did have a library that contained flute trill samples. Would those necessarily be played at the right speed to give you the effect you need? Maybe, maybe not.

Multiply these kinds of concerns by every instrument in the orchestra and you can quickly see why having access to a variety of sample libraries is essential.

So it's more about the libraries than the DAW. But one of the beautiful things about Logic is its ability to display the score of your work by (literally) pushing a button.

So yes, I'd recommend Logic. But more importantly, I'd recommend checking out (and being prepared to spend some $$$) on sample libraries. GPO is good for starters, but you'll quickly outgrow it as you start to realize its weaknesses. For me its strengths are in the woodwinds, harp, percussion instruments (some, not all), and some of the solo strings (the latter needing tons of EQ to make sound full). But string and horn ensembles are about as lame as they get.

Kirk Hunter's Emerald Collection is a tremendous value. Strings, brass, and woodwinds absolutely shine.

well, you got pretty much all you need from iSchwartz but i thought i would chime in with my own thoughts:

logic has the flexibility to work with orchestral libraries to allow them to be mixed an matched worked with on a score that resembles a proper orchestral score. ie, you can make the score sound the way it looks. this takes a little technical finegalling to set up, but it is something about which there is plenty of info out there to help you get it going.

it requires using a part of logic that is unique to it (and can be daunting at first) but once set up makes things very simple to use. you can just think like a composer working on paper.

I teach Logic and Garritan at University level and have a fair bit of experience at what works and what doesn't. Having said that, I can't add much to the comments already made. There is no single sample library that will do everything but - and this is the biggie - even if there were, one could spend so much time key switching, getting phrasing, note lengths and articulations just so, choosing bowing and other issues of technique, that you would not spend any time writing music.

Logic 8 is a composition tool, a recording tool, a post-production tool, a mastering tool, a scoring to video tool and (with MainStage) a live tool. OK, some it does better than others but there isn't a better all round package than Logic.

What Logic is NOT is a live musician and, frankly, there is no substitute. If you really, really want creative detail in a performance then you need players and, as you clearly have a keen ear, you will drive yourself trying to get a performance out of Logic.

I learnt far more from trying to get a good performance out of a MIDIfied piano piece than I have out of orchestral. We used to have a saying in IBM: don't try and boil the ocean. Professionally trained instrumentalists do not consciously make decisions about aspects of technique but, instead, rely on training and intuition, based on the live dynamic with other musicians. I spent 4 years at a top London music college as a string player, wind player, pianist and conductor but would never dream of trying to get the essence of each and every orchestral instrument in a MIDI file.

I don't think I've ever got a single phrase out of MIDI that made the classical hairs on the back of my neck stand up. Sorry to be negative but I think you've taken on more than any piece of software can deliver.

However, mankind never got anywhere by compromise so shoot for it and have fun but don't beat yourself up when you have difficulties.

Pete

I have to agree, the samples that come with LP8 are not exactly the best. There are some good ones, but for Orchestra type work, you'll need to find some better samples (aka expensive). Same with guitar also -- not sure where Apple got these, but they are something I'd find bundle with a Creative Labs sound card.

In a word, find a good sample library.

Rob