clicks with spdif audio recording

Let's go with my problem:

While recording from my spdif input to audio track in logic i can hear clicks. These clicks are more frequent as lower is the core audio buffer. I can deduce where around is the problem, but how to solve it? (I'm sure my usual buffer size settings are enough, 64 samples buffer works great with many exs instruments, large cpu load and without clicks)

I hope I'm missing something and this is not a bug. I've set the audio card clock as external. Sample rate detected 48khz. That's ok. I can monitor the input signal through the analog output. It sounds fine and polite. (So my device is working correctly)

I don't know what exactly i have to do with audio configuration in logic to record properly in this scenario. I've set the audio sample rate obviously to 48khz, i've tried several synchronization settings as external, autodetect external sync, etc. All of them (even with the standard settings) produce the same bahaviour. Tried turning off software monitoring. The same.

Can anybody help me or give some advice?
Thanks

MacPro 2,66 2GB 1,5TB, Mac OS X (10.4.10), M-Audio Firewire410, Kurzweil PC2x, evolution 4oct keyboard, Behringer BCF2000

Posted on Oct 19, 2007 11:49 AM

Reply
16 replies

Oct 19, 2007 12:21 PM in response to rampol

You need to raise the number of samples till you get no more clicks. That's all there is to it. Sadly CoreAudio is inferior to ASIO these days in terms of latency, but you don't have the option of ASIO anymore on Macs. The clicks occur when the computer cannot process (and save) the signal fast enough due to too small of a buffer, the only correct setting is the one where you don't get clicks, recording audio is a more intensive than playback and so requires a larger buffer normally.

Oct 19, 2007 1:02 PM in response to Per-Anders

I think the problem is not the buffer size, althoug changing the that size the clicks occur in different way. I told you I have no problems with smallest sizes at high freqs (up to 192khz) and more than 15 audio instruments. No clicks anywhere, only when recording from digital input. Those clicks are not the common spaced clics (1 per second or so), but there are many of them, as a low freq. noise. I gave that info supposing to help about where is the problem, but I know this (buffer size) is not the problem. Thanks anyway for your reply.
😟

Oct 19, 2007 1:11 PM in response to Per-Anders

Although I agree that you should try increase the sample buffers to see if that will resolve the problem, I would definitely disagree that Core Audio itself is inferior to ASIO as far as latency goes. When ASIO has a card that will work reliably at 32 samples like the Apogee Symphony, then I'll retract that statement.

The other possibility which hasn't been mentioned is that regardless of the clock setting, if you are getting "clicks" ONLY on the s/pdif input, I would suspect a clocking issue. It could be resolved by simply replacing your i/o cables with higher quality ones or getting shorter ones. If that doesn't do it, then you either have a bad clocking device, or your settings are wrong.

I've been using LP8 with an external RME i/o box (into my 002r) since day one, so I know that at least the ADAT clocking seems to be working just fine with LP8. I haven't had a chance to try s/pdif yet.

Oct 20, 2007 4:56 AM in response to lwilliam

Hi again, and thanks again. The same configuration with optical cables works fine (obviously with other devices, as if my spdif device had optical output i'd already used it). From smallest to largest buffer sizes. My spdif cables are good quality and short ones. I suspect there is something wrong in my clock/synch settings, but I don't know enough about it. I've told you that "clicks" are not the eventual clicks produced by not enough time to process the audio data. That clicks are very regular and may be 50 per second (I insist: not the 1 or 2 per second when you have very low latency settings). Are not the buffer size, I agree the problem is something related to sync, and the fact the clicks sound different at different buffer sizes simply provides information about something is happening each time a buffer is loaded/released. I thing there's one click each time a buffer is used. E.g. buffer size 2048 at 48khz produces 23 clicks per second, buffer size 32 samples produces 1500 clicks (you hear like a noise). I'm going to count those clicks, but i'm sure is that way.


Hope i'm not too boring and someone can give me the solution. Those who had tha same problem or those who worked correctly with spdif inputs. Thanks again.

Nov 3, 2007 9:41 AM in response to rampol

Hola rampo: yo tengo el mismo problema. Haber, te situo un poco: Macbook 2,16 GHz y memoria ampliada a 2 Gygas. Logic pro 8 original instalado. Mi objetivo es grabar guitarras electricas y acusticas con mic. Tanto el instrumento como el mic lo puedo pasar por un previo DBX386 (2 canales). Como el problema de la latencia no hay software que lo arregle, lo que hago es conectar las salidas analógicas del pre a una mesita behringer para poder escucharme a tiempo real y la música de referencia que sale del mac(por línea)también la meto en la mesa. Lo que realmente me interesa es que la señal que se grabe en el portátil sea buena y para eso conecto la salida spdif del previo (coaxial)a un cacharro que me lo convierte a spdif óptico y de ahí a la entrada óptica del mac. No se si te has enterao bien, pero bueno el caso es que me ocurre lo que a ti. Sabes algo nuevo al respecto?. He estado leyendo por la web y la única conclusión que saqué es que las señales spdif llevan implícitas la información referente al wordclock y al parecer hay que decirle al logic que sea el esclavo o que ponga a la tarjeta del mac como esclava en la sincronización de audio. Todavía no lo he podido probar.

Nov 3, 2007 10:03 AM in response to alexitooo

Excuse me, i forgot that this is an english forum. Well, how I said, I´ve got the same rampo1 problem. I have a DBX386 premic and this unit has a digital coaxial spdif output, and I thought that I could carry this out into digital optical input in macbook (2.16GHz and 2gygas in RAM). I can read in the web that spdif signals have itself all information about wordclock syncronitation, so we must put the logic like slave. always if you are working only with two devices interconnected by spdif. If you connect more than two, you´ll need a exterior master wordclock and put all devices into this master. Someone knows something about?

Nov 3, 2007 11:14 AM in response to alexitooo

You do not need wordclock to use SPDIF. Clock data does come down the SPDIF. But there can be only 1 clock master, usually the device that the signal originates from. All other devices must be set to get the clock externally over the SPDIF cable. Wordclock allows for clock data to be sent separately from audio data, and provides a cleaner signal. But it is not required, there just has to be ONE clock master, all others must be set to external.

Nov 3, 2007 1:33 PM in response to alexitooo

Wordclock is not necessary. I don't have a way to check the settings, I do not use SPDIF with my laptop. But there are 3 places to check, in the preferences/audio/devices of Logic, the system prefs for sound for OSX, and in AudioMidi setup in your utilities folder. You could also try making an Aggregate Device in AudioMidi setup, which allows for the use of multiple interfaces at the same time, including the built-in audio, and gives you the choice of what will be the clock master, but that will require some investigation on your part.

Nov 4, 2007 4:46 AM in response to John Buehler

Hi John and Alexitoo,

I've read over your comments but not with too detail as I think my "problem" is solved. Let's go what I did:

All i have to do is to follow this steps in this strict sort:
1-switch on my digital output device (in my case a synth-keyboard)
2-set the audio card control panel sync to external-coaxial
3-open LP8!!

I don't remember what i was doing before, but i'm not sure the steps were followed that way. I think I opened first LP8 and later was set my audio card clock to external => don't think logic can manage this change of audio sync.

As doing this everything is working fine, i haven't made a look at logic prefs (external sync, audio bitrate, etc), but i think audio card sync is no relevant to logic to work. (And i think by chance i have 48kHz as default bitrate, that is the same for my spdif device. If wasn't it the only thing i should set in logic would be the audio bit rate). That's all. Dont' completely understand but IT WORKS!

Thanks also for your comments and hope my final solution will be useful for you.

saludos alexitooo

ramon

Nov 5, 2007 2:19 AM in response to rampol

Hi ramon:
There is pnly one thing i can´t understand: "set the audio card control panel sync to external-coaxial". At first place i haven´t external sound. If you refer to internal sound card from mac, it can´t let you sync to external coaxial because the internal sound card from mac hasn´t any coaxial connection. If you refer to external soundcard which connect via spdif to mac. how you configurate the audiomidi setup in your mac?

Nov 5, 2007 8:19 AM in response to alexitooo

ok, i haven't read completely your posts, sorry, i'll do. in my scenario i need to record from an external device (in my case the sound of a kurzweil contoller, which have a digital 48kHz 24bit digital output). I need to tell my soundcard who have the master sync clock. You must do that everytime you record into your computer from an external digital device (doesn't matter coaxial or optical). In my case, i set my audio card clock sync to external (and coaxial).
Automatially it detects the 48kHz signal and my OS audio/midi devices panel is showing the 48kHz bitrate. Then I open logic and I can record without noise nor clicks. What i've just seen is that if you have (in project audio settings) a different bitrate (e.g. 44100), once you've recorded from the digital (or analog, whatever you want), a conversion to the project settings is done. So if you want to record from your digital external device you must set the according project audio bitrate to the external bitrate detected. Hope to have been clear about what is my scenario and hope it can be useful.

saludos!

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clicks with spdif audio recording

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