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  • Siddor Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I again have the same BSoD problem, Although now I can't even startup off the CD, holding alt on startup doesn't work! C at Startup doesn't work! it won't start off Disk Warrior or Drive Genius Discs. A Firewire "T" Startup won't work either. I just dodn't know where to turn now?

    Thanks Apple!

    Anyone any Ideas?
  • Bruce Kempe Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Interesting.

    Macs..
    Powerbook 17" with multiple user accounts
    Macbook Pro with 1 user
    Mac Min Media centre with one user.

    Upgrade to Leopard went perfectly well on both of the intel macs but had problems on the G4 PPC. Install completed successfully but then hung on the beachball of death after booting up for the first time. Displayed screen normally and dock but appeared that Finder was having some serious issues in the background.

    Solution
    Boot to DVD. Create disk image of failed HDD with Disk Utility, to an external drive.
    Erase and install on native drive.
    Mount Disc Image and copy what you need to restore to full function.

    Judging from the performance increase on the PPC mac with an erase and install I am seriously thinking about doing the same thing on the intel macs as i believe there are some issues with the upgrade process.

    Small problem in hand at present with apple also is post upgrade none of my computers is able to browse onto smb shares on my NAS tree.

    Still sooooo much better than Windoze.
  • Siddor Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I've figured out what had happened, with my problem if anyone else makes the same mistake, I foolishly changed the Open Firmware password, please see:

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=5676077#5676077

    I'am doing an archive and install now so we'll see how that goes!
  • Stephanie Craxford Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Stephanie Craxford wrote:
    FWIW.

    I just did an upgrade on my iMac 24".

    1. Booting from Tiger I first repaired my disc.
    2. Then I cloned my system to my new vantec ext drive.
    3. Checked that I could boot from the ext drive
    4. Booted to Leopard and selected the default install which was Upgrade.
    5. The upgrade took 1 hour and 9 minutes.
    6. The system restarted with out any problems.

    Now I installed using the Family Pack DVD, so I'm not sure if that makes a difference. Have all the installation failures been with the Single User DVD?

    Steph


    I just did the same on my MacBook pro -
  • nickels Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Rey G wrote:
    As already stated above Apple has no responsibility to ensure that third party programs work properly. I'm sure they test extensively with programs from major vendors such as Adobe and Microsoft but smaller/obscure developers like Unsanity should test their software (old and new) for compatibility issues and warn their customers. Even as I write this they have no visible warning to customers who might be upgrading to Leopard.


    There you're wrong: Unsanity have an extensive table of applications and their respective compatibilities for Tiger, Leopard and Intel

    see: http://www.unsanity.com/products/compatibility
  • Allude Level 1 Level 1 (55 points)
    which all of them except some chat program app are incompatible with leopard. Hmmm makes since why people with those apps would be having problems!
  • Rey G Level 1 Level 1 (10 points)
    nickels wrote:
    Rey G wrote:
    As already stated above Apple has no responsibility to ensure that third party programs work properly. I'm sure they test extensively with programs from major vendors such as Adobe and Microsoft but smaller/obscure developers like Unsanity should test their software (old and new) for compatibility issues and warn their customers. Even as I write this they have no visible warning to customers who might be upgrading to Leopard.


    There you're wrong: Unsanity have an extensive table of applications and their respective compatibilities for Tiger, Leopard and Intel

    see: http://www.unsanity.com/products/compatibility


    Why isn't that an easy to find advisory on the front page of the Unsanity site? Especially knowing that Leopard installs can cause problems for users. Unsanity should bring attention to it instead of having users dig for that info.
  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (14,875 points)
    nobody loopback wrote:
    APE does not "modify" the OS. Modifying means for me, that code is changed. I also cannot see, that code someone writes, must be "authorized" by apple. If someone writes code, which does not modify the Apple supplied binaries, this cannot be illegal.


    A. Nobody is saying it is "illegal." A haxie uses a proprietary or undocumented entry point into the OS to insert its own code, which modifies the behavior of the OS. Apple provides dozens of publicly documented & authorized entry points in what are usually called API's, for Application Programing Interfaces. API documentation tells developers what must be set up before these patches are called, what they do, & what must be done afterwards to keep the OS from behaving unexpectedly. For example, if a patch changes the state of a file, you must make sure various OS services know about it so they can update the metadata (data about data) applications use to access it. Otherwise, bad things can happen, like two applications trying to change the file at the same time. (Don't think of the OS as one big program, but as hundreds of them all working together.)

    Haxies are like API's, except they patch themselves into the OS at some point Apple doesn't document or support. These points themselves or the setup requirements for them may change as Apple changes the OS -- if not, new features like support for Time Machine would be impractical to implement.

    All modern OS's work like this, even open source ones. You can't go blundering around patching the OS wherever you want; there are only so many places it makes sense, some stable version to version & maintained for this purpose, some not.


    The changes to the look and feel to the OS which APE & FruitMenu implemented, did never interfere with any other function os the OS from my knowledge. They simply enhanced the functionality.


    The changes interfere with the OS when the OS changes. That is the point.

    But given the popularity of the unsanity haxies, I would have thought that it is rather practical for apple to take care of possible problems in advance by either checking for the presence of APE and then refusing to install or better, give a warning that installation cannot continue without removal of APE.


    Perhaps Apple could spend the time & money to research which haxies interfere with which OS update or upgrade routines. And continue to do this every time one of the developers of these things changes them, which is fairly often. Frankly, I'd be very unhappy if Apple did this because it would delay the release of OS improvements, increase their cost, reduce the number of features that could be added with the same budget, or some combination of these things. Besides, it isn't Apple's responsibility to do this -- it is something like GM adding checks to its autos to prevent you from installing substandard third party equipment.
  • kozmic70 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I had the same problem as you on my macbook during the update installation.
    At the end I did a fresh new installation (cleanup of my former tiger installation). That worked !
    In my opinion a possible reason for being stuck on plain blue screen can be incompatible startup objects (e.g. known problem with Missing Sync for Windows). The update installation is useless, if you run old software that uses startup objects on your tiger installation (the software may run on tiger but not on leopard). Apple should provide more information how to disable startup objects that block the startup of leopard.
  • bertie_uk Level 1 Level 1 (25 points)
    Before proceeding with my format and re-install after the blue screen, I booted up in target disk mode and removed everything from /Library/StartupItems/, /System/Library/StartupItems/, Contextual Menu Items (finder plugins), etc, etc but still blue screen.

    Afterthough, with all this talk of APE, I did have SwitchResX installed for my projector (custom widescreen res). Could this have been the cause?

    Bertie
  • kozmic70 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I found this information on the english Apple Support page:

    Mac OS X 10.5: "Blue screen" appears after installing Leopard and restarting
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306857


    I followed the instructions described on the german Apple Support page:

    Ihr Mac startet nicht unter Mac OS X (Mac OS X 10.3.9 oder neuer)
    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106464#symp1

    Unfortunately the instructions described on german support page didn't help in my case. I think it isn't 1:1 translation, perhaps the english instructions are more helpful.
  • R C-R Level 6 Level 6 (14,875 points)
    Rey G wrote:
    Why isn't that an easy to find advisory on the front page of the Unsanity site? Especially knowing that Leopard installs can cause problems for users. Unsanity should bring attention to it instead of having users dig for that info.


    There are a variety of reasons why developers of haxies (not just Unsanity) don't do this. Some derive revenue from their efforts, sometimes by licensing them to other developers, by selling ad space on their sites, or other indirect means not obvious to end users. Prominently displaying incompatibility info could reduce their revenue streams, so they are reluctant to do it.

    Sometimes it is simple pride in their work or arrogance that leads them to believe the problems are Apple's & not theirs to fix. (A few of these developers are outspoken critics of how Apple implements some feature of the OS -- not too surprisingly, usually ones that are destabilized when their haxie is used.) Their agenda often includes, directly or indirectly, forcing Apple to change or "open up" the OS in some way they believe will improve it. That in itself is a noble end but it seems to me they look at the issue from a narrow perspective that doesn't take into account larger issues like maintaining the OS over time, security, or overall stability -- all things I value a lot more than some "enhancement" some users may want & others don't care about.

    But sometimes it is just limited resources that prevent them from timely posting of compatibility info. After all, most of these developers are just individuals or small groups, not deep pocket companies with separate departments for development, web site maintenance, & customer support. The most responsible of them at least post disclaimers about testing in progress, but it is best to assume their haxies will not work with an updated OS until that is specifically stated. Optimistic statements like "We think it will work" are understandable but best taken with a grain of salt.
  • Mark Feigenbaum Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    If you have the option, you can also mount leopard in firewire target mode and remove the offending application enhancer files manually through the finder. This worked for me.

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4394097

    http://www.macfixit.com/article.php?story=200710261517596

    http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=306857
  • Mac's Lover Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    What a rip-off Apple!!!
  • ahf ct Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    i've installed 10.5 without problems on 4 of our macs at home (family pack), but on our IMac 17" 1.87 GHz, 1 GB Ram, it wouldn't install. It shows a yellow caution over the icon for the hard drive. When I try to boot back to 10.4.9, I get the Grey screen with the apple logo and the spinning gears for a few minutes and then it shuts itself down. Any advice - either to get to 10.5 or to revert back to 10.4.9?

    Thanks in advance,