Leopard-Classic-PPC

Hello Howard,

I think the answer is a " No "

The support for OS 9 is growing dimmer by the minute.


Regards

Ian

The answer IS "no".
Apple completely removed the classic environment from Leopard. Not that it would not work, it's just that it is no longer their business plan to implement support.

Howard. There is supposedly an open source Classic emulator that works. I haven't tried it yet, so I can't vouch for it. However, you might want to look into SheepShaver. Search on MacUpdate or VersionTracker.

SheepShaver is an Open Source PowerPC Mac OS run-time environment. That is, it enables you to run PowerPC Classic Mac OS software on your computer, even if you are using a different operating system. However, you still need a copy of Mac OS and a PowerMacintosh ROM image to use this program. SheepShaver is distributed under the terms of the GNU General Public License (GPL).

If it works for you, lets us know.

Howard Gorman wrote:
Quick question: Will Leopard run Mac Classic on a PPC?

*Now, check this out*: tired of waiting for the Tiger 10.4.11 update, my system was a mess, I decided to reinstall my Mac mini's original Tiger from the ground up last week. So after installing Tiger 10.4.2 from the DVDs I installed the 10.4.10 PPC Combo Update. I noticed that the "Classic/OS 9" icon on System Prefs was gone, but then... SURPRISE: my "Classic" applications install and run like they were OS X native applications!!!!!!!! How did this happen? No clue. I don't recall being asked for anything relating to Classic during the OS nor the combo update installs. I suppose it's something built in the "Tiger 10" PPC Combo Update.

These little "surprises" from Apple have been going on since I got my last Mac before Christmas, 2005: I bought a Mac mini that advertised as G4 1.42Ghz, 32Mb dedicated video RAM and Bluetooth 1.1, and I got 1.5Ghz processor with 64Mb video RAM and Bluetooth 2.0. Too bad they didn't pack a DVD burner instead of the DVD/CD-RW Combo...

*Maybe the answer for your question is NOT a "No". Give it a try.* You might end up running your "Classic" apps just as smooth as I am running mine on Tiger 10.4.10.

Good luck.

PS: have never tried using "Classic" peripherals, though.

Message was edited by: Bruno Leite

Welcome to Apple Discussions!

Nope, Leopard is where Classic doesn't exist. Apple says so here:

http://www.info.apple.com/kbnum/n303137

Welcome to the Apple Discussion Board!

I would do a little research before posting statements on here that are known to be false. OS9 WILL NOT WORK WITH LEOPARD. There is no magical dust that will change this either. The reason you're probably not seeing classic load now is because the OS9 startup screen defaults to not show, which you can't change now because your classic preference pane is not showing. If you go to the PreferencePanes folder in your System, and open Classsic.prefPane, it will now appear in your System Preferences.

In addition, only Tiger has the Classic Prefpane. Leopard does not.

Nothing is really impossible and if there is demand, someone will write a SW emulator for OSIX. It wouldn't even surprise me if someone wrote one that worked on a PC as well.
There are many classic games that run on Linux and therefore Mac, that have been ported or run in an emulator.
Just look at what VPC does on a G5. You can run DOS, Linux, XP, whatever on a PPC.
If the box is fast enough, a SW emulator can do almost anything.

True, but, and here is the big but, Mac OS 9 is still licensed software. Emulating it without the proper licensing, and emulating the chipset without proper licensing may be illegal depending on your jurisdiction. Since Discussions forbids discussing illegal activity, we have to be very careful when discussing such matters.

a brody wrote:
True, but, and here is the big but, Mac OS 9 is still licensed software. Emulating it without the proper licensing, and emulating the chipset without proper licensing may be illegal depending on your jurisdiction. Since Discussions forbids discussing illegal activity, we have to be very careful when discussing such matters.

Why do you assume I ignored licensing and other legal issues? Of course Apple would be involved, that goes without saying. Please do not assume things like that, without just cause. I don't even know why you thought that way or where you got the idea from. Please.....

pardthemonster wrote:
Welcome to the Apple Discussion Board!

I would do a little research before posting statements on here that are known to be false. OS9 WILL NOT WORK WITH LEOPARD. There is no magical dust that will change this either. The reason you're probably not seeing classic load now is because the OS9 startup screen defaults to not show, which you can't change now because your classic preference pane is not showing. If you go to the PreferencePanes folder in your System, and open Classsic.prefPane, it will now appear in your System Preferences.

Thanks guys for the welcome notes.

Yes, Classic.PrefPane is in my System folder. As Tiger never asked me to install "Classic" (I remember it did when I first got this computer), I thought this could be some new trick of Tiger 10 that could have been made for Leopard too. I'll just keep things as they are now, it's working beautifully. One more reason not to go for Leopard on PPC, better get a new C2D Mac and keep Tiger on the G4 mini.

As for the suggested +little research+, I wouldn't take Apple's official announcements for it, I'd rather rely on PPC Leopard users experience.

So, any of you running Leopard on PPC, what happens when you try to install or open an OS 9 app?

I have Leopard on my PPC but I only played with OSIX once, when I first got the box with Panther installed.
When I fire it up next I will see what happens and let you know.

Facts :

"Classic" is only available on PowerPC based Macintoshes running OSX 10.0 - 10.4.10 ( current)
"Classic" is done by either having a second partition which has OS9.1 - 9.22 installed ( that is Macs that can natively boot into OS9 - macs that show the Startup Disk choice between X or 9 )
or alternatevly macs that cannot boot natively into OS 9 but have a OS9 Systemfolder dropped into the OSX ' root folder ( again : only powerPC Macs ).

"Classic" cannot be run on any IntelMac, because Mac OS 9 is only for PPC Cpus, it cannot run on x86 Hardware.

"Classic" is no emulator of any sort. It is an virtual environment to contain a "sandboxed" OS9, but it runs natively with the same speed as if it was executed outside OSX, the cpu used is the "real one, your G3 or G4 ", it just runs isolated in OSX, so if it crashes OSX is not affected.

"Classic" is NOT available on OSX 10.5.x and this cannot be "worked out", it is just impossible and Apple has designed OSX 10.5 to not support anything related to OS9 any longer. Point, not possible and not supported. If you wish to use "classic" your highest OSX is 10.4.10 ( current ).

"Sheepshaver" is NOT "classic".
Sheepshaver is an emulator which runs PPC- Software on Linux,Mac OS X, Windows and does this on all kind of Archtictures, on PPC as well on Intel x86 or AMD Cpus.
sheepshaver SIMULATES the powerPC when running under other platforms, this affects performance of course very much. It also does not contain any Operating System or any Macintosh ROM ( "the BIOS of the Mac" ) - both a Mac OS AND a legit ROM is needed to succesfully get Sheepshaver running. You must manually edit a lot of files, you must make a virtual Harddisk, install a supported MAc OS onto that harddisk and find yourself a way on how to get it running.
if it runs, then you get maximum the power of a ppc 603e cpu running at clock of about 100MhZ, that is slow - go see an old performa or powerbook pre-G3 to get an understanding of that speed.
Everything Sheepshaver is virtual and not for real. Also you cannot share easily data with the host OS, in our Case OSX, and networking inside this virtual box is tricky, sometimes even not possible.

To capture the Rom you need a real ppc-mac, also you need a real OS8.x or 9 CD to boot it -, so .. if you have all that, then why not simply run the old hardware ?

But once again to answer : Leopard = NO OS9. Not via classic, only via geeky stuff.

"Classic" is no emulator of any sort. It is an virtual environment to contain a "sandboxed" OS9, but it runs natively with the same speed as if it was executed outside OSX, the cpu used is the "real one, your G3 or G4 ", it just runs isolated in OSX, so if it crashes OSX is not affected.

Fact, this is not entirely true. In fact Classic has been slower to sometimes untenably slow compared to booting directly into 9 when available. I couldn't run Simcity 3000 for 2 hours while it tried to load the game in Classic, where it would load it in 10 seconds booting into 9. Thank goodness Simcity 4 came out. Quicktime playback in Classic was choppy, and this was significantly a problem for those Indeo video codecs that are not available in Mac OS X. Some Mac OS 9 applications wouldn't run under Classic and had to wait for Mac OS X native equivalents such as VirtualPC. Some printer drivers that never had problems in Mac OS 9 would not print in applications in Classic.

Whether you call it virtualization, emulation, or whatever, it was not the same thing as a direct boot into Mac OS 9.

I do however agree with your other facts.

That is a serious blow.

I am a Mac user and developer since circa 1986 and without Classic, this is the FIRST operating system update that I cannot adopt.

I need Classic to run MPW, because I maintain a few dozen GPL projects (and a handful of commercial products) which include "classic" MacOS as a target platform.

Apple, are you listening? Please don't arbitrarily kill off Classic. This is also going to be a serious thorn in the side for vertical markets such as your beloved graphic design and media: Trust me, I have worked in that area on Macs for 20+ years...

For my immediate needs it would be enough if you released MPW source code so that it could be ported to {OS X,Linux,UNIX}. Can you do that for Christmas? PLEASE?