ringtones...cost $1...

It is much more simple from a technology standpoint, to ensure one one can only purchase a song in iTunes and make that into a ringtone, than to allow one to make one from any CD one has ripped.

After all how can they be sure that the CD one rips is really owned by the person doing the ripping and not borrowed from another party. It all goes back to copy rights.

No, we cannot agree on your completely unsubstantiated assertion here.
Let's not cloud the issue by throwing mud around, and insulting people you know nothing about, shall we?

Sorry about being harsh.

Its not that simple at all. You may have noticed that your iPhone and iPod will happily play any mp3s you throw at them, blithely ignoring the question of how that mp3 file came into being, and where it is from.

+Also for fact: Apple is cheaper then all the other carriers+

This is entirely irrelevant, of course. You do not have to buy ringtones from anybody, unless you have an iPhone. The point is, just about every other phone being sold these days will allow you to upload and use as a ringtone any mp3 you like, except for the iPhone.

read the pdf link

my point is Apple is bound to RIAA laws much more since it is based around iTunes for its iPhone product. Someone asked for the link, here it is...

Without even reading it, someone boasted how it is still wrong... Wrong it may be, but it is a law

Again, not true.. certain sony phones will no longer allow mp3's as ringtones.. they have to be digitally signed. At that point you end up hacking it just as you would to put your own ringer on the iphone.. not to mention other limits that handset makers are putting on them. iPhone is not the ONLY phone with limitied additional ringers, it is just the most well known.

Pirx07 wrote:
+Also for fact: Apple is cheaper then all the other carriers+

This is entirely irrelevant, of course. You do not have to buy ringtones from anybody, unless you have an iPhone. The point is, just about every other phone being sold these days will allow you to upload and use as a ringtone any mp3 you like, except for the iPhone.

Apple doesn't HAVE to spend money to plug the holes, all they have to do is show an effort to thwart.. =) And imho, they have already done this. Mostly ringtone generator created tones will stop working more with itunes updates then with iphone updates.

And as for all you people whining about mp3's being derivative works as well.. no. A derivative work is something which is being used for an intention other then that of the copyright holder. An MP3 qualifies as your 1 legal backup of the licensed material as long as you do not use both the copy and the original simultaneously (not that it would ever be enforced) Apparently, your answers to apple playing it safe within the DMCA is to encourage them to remove even more functionality.

The MP3 may be perfectly legal under the DMCA so it plays.
Using that MP3 as a ringtone is NEVER legal under the DMCA unless it was specificly sold to you as a ringtone.

Now, where this bothers me is my ringtone used to be of a song I wrote and recorded. I am not on a label and I am not on itunes. I cannot use my own intellectual property because of some dumb * politicians and lobbyists from the RIAA.

MarkRHolbrook wrote:
I think I understand now. RIAA and the derivative work concept. Thanks Allan.

I really don't have a problem with paying for ring tones and Allan does make a point that with Apple's method we get the option of picking any part of the song we wish.

Unfortunately as we all know this will never remain an Apple/RIAA secret. iPhone is not even a year old and how many ring tone installers are there now? Yes Apple will patch and plug, some will work, others will not at least until the next round of updates.

I think RIAA would have been way smarter to say, ok... you bought the right to the song, you can make a ring tone but it will only play if you have the original song installed. Just my 2c... I think millions will be spent by Apple to try and plug this hole. I'd rather see them spend that time/money on new apps and fixes.

Message was edited by: sys3175

Why do ringtones cost a dollar? So that Steve Jobs can buy another yacht. I think $.99 ringtones is a fair price if you want to get them from the iTunes store all made out for you from recording artists' work. Of course it would be nice to be able to make your own. Particularly since many Mac owners like to play with Garageband. But then Apple wouldn't get any money from that. So we can't. You can only have the fun with an iPhone that Apple says you can and you have to pay for every bit of fun you are allowed to have. Therefore, ringtones - one dollar.

So does that mean that over here in the UK where we have DMCA we'll be able to enjoy custom ringtones to our hearts content? Or is there some UK equivalent law, or will apple keep the restriction in place for the sake of making life easier for their developers?

No, it would not. Becuase the songs sold on iTunes are LICENSED for the expressed purpose of transferring to your iPod or up to 5 personal computers. If you copy or distribute the songs beyond the iTunes license agreement, only THEN are you breaking the law.

Cinema person-- once again, if the price is too high, then don't purchase the ringtone. No one is holding a gun to your head so that Steve Jobs can "buy a yacht."

I find it outstanding that people willing to spend $400-$600 on an iPhone complain about having to spend a buck on a custon ringtone. If price is such an impediment, then stick with the generic ringtones that Apple includes on the phone.

Please, will someone provide some cheeze to go with all of this whine???

So if I wanted to do something crazy like record my voice or my friends voice and use that as a ring tone who do I send my 99 cents to?

Also as far as I can tell the selection of songs you can turn into ring tones on itunes is pretty slim. The songs I try do not have the option.

I really think that the DMCA excuse is just that, an excuse. I have no problem with them offering the ring tones through itunes and charging 99 cents for them. However to make this the only method in which you can get ring tones is just silly. I do not think that the DMCA ringtone section says anything about not allowing people to create their own ring tones. It just says that you have to pay for copyrighted content that you use for ring tones.

Also the "only criminals want this feature" argument is a very slippery slope. Never a good argument for any reduction of feature set of a product. This argument really takes away power from the consumer. I being a consumer would rather keep this power and not just trivially discard it because "only criminals would want a choice".

Lastly even if apple is the cheapest ring tone provider that still does not mean they charge a fair price. To pay 99 cents for a thirty second snippet of a song which you can buy in full from apple for 99 is fairly expensive. Why can't I make two or three ringtones from the same song and still pay 99 cents?

Also unlike most other carriers the only option to get ring tones is through apple. This is really annoying because it means that I as a customer can never get a cheaper option (assuming one was available) from someone else. Unlike the music, which you can get from other sources and upload to your iphone.

Plain and simple the ring tone business is a lucrative one. Apple wanted to make sure that they get their cut from this. By forcing us to use their service they can guarantee revenue. This to me is a much more plausible explanation that they were worried about violating the DMCA which no other carrier seems to worry about. This to me is very greedy.

I like most other people do not like being forced into something. Other people have said that one does not have to buy the itunes ringtones which in a way is true. However it is also false. If you want a ringtone you have to buy a itunes ringtone.

I myself have not bought any. This comes mainly from the problem that I stated earlier. Every song I want to use is not available as a ringtone.

sys3175 wrote:
Now, where this bothers me is my ringtone used to be of a song I wrote and recorded. I am not on a label and I am not on itunes. I cannot use my own intellectual property because of some dumb * politicians and lobbyists from the RIAA.

This is why I said don't blame Apple, it is the above and the 99% of users which would abuse the above situation

Where can you get a ring tone that sounds like a basic cell phone ring, i dont want dogs barking, trumpets, car horns rap songs etc... just a simple phone ring.

go to iTunes and type in ringing in the iTunes store.. There are some 20 second clips of phones ringing to choose from.