Mac Classic won't boot ...System error "out of memory"

Question

Level 2

245 points

Mac Classic won't boot ...System error "out of memory"

Hi,

I'm trying to repair a Mac Classic for a friend and I can't get it to boot off the HD or System Disk.

I got it to boot off the system disk once, but now it won't. When it booted off the system disk, there wasn't a Mac HD Icon on the desktop and Disk First Aid didn't show one either.

When trying to boot off the HD it get 3 system icons loaded (at the bottom) then I get "System Error Out of Memory".

I don't know if this is relevant or not but just in case I'll describe the system icons that load.

One of the icons, is a computer with two cables, coming from opposite sides, and joining together and going up inside as one, (Appletalk or Network?).

The other icon is square, it has two black apple icons on the left and a capital "A" at the bottom with the Roman numeral "II" next to it and a small "a" at the top and another black apple icon on the right edge.

The last one, to load, is 3 capital A's, one on top of the other, cascading backward, getting smaller as they go. and leaning off to the side. The A looks like a courier font and each "A" is a different shade of blue. After that I get the bomb icon and error message.

I tried to reset the PRAM (not sure if it applies to this Mac) but no chimes. I tried starting with extensions off (again, not sure if it applies for this model)..but that didn't work either.

I tried to search Apple Archieve Knowledge Base at
( http://karchive.info.apple.com) but got an error message saying "the server stopped responding". Everytime I find a link to a manual or info at the Apple site, either the server stops responding or it asked for a name and password.

Here's the two ftp sites I tried:

( ftp://ftp.info.apple.com/AppleSupportArea/Misc/Service/servicemanuals)
( ftp://manuals.info.apple.com/AppleSupportArea/Manuals/)

Is there any other place online where I can get a manual?

I have system disks for my MAC SE, I think its OS 6.05. Would those work for booting up?
I don't know what kind of floppy drive the two have or they reads 800k, DD or HD disks.
Are DD and HD floppy disk 1.44mbs?

I would like to install Norton Utilities on it, but I would need to find a version on floppies, and that's probably impossible.

Thank you in advance
Deb

Posted on Oct 30, 2005 6:25 AM

Reply

Answer 1

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Oct 30, 2005 9:03 AM in response to Debberss

Deb,

First of all, by "Mac Classic", do you mean exactly that, that is a Macintosh Classic (not a Macintosh Classic II or a generic "classic" Mac)?

The Macintosh Classic can handle both 800K (DD diskettes) and 1.4 MB (HD diskettes).

The older manuals page can be found here, but does not contain a handbook for this very model.

Use a startup floppy with minimum System 6.0.7. If necessary, System 6.0.8 ( US) or 7.0.1 ( British) can be downloaded from Apple.

You may want to try starting from a floppy with the four keys Command (Apple) + Option (Alt) + Shift + Delete (Backspace) pressed.

If the hard disk icon does not appear on the Desktop, one may have to update the hard disk drive driver software via the appropriate command (button) in Apple HD SC Setup. Disk First Aid is to be tried first (if possible). Please keep in mind that data may be lost, so backup copies of important files should really be available before attempting to carry out any update.

A weak internal battery can sometimes cause unexpected problems. Also, it may not be a bad idea to check that memory modules and connectors are in place. Please note though, that work inside a compact Mac can be very dangerous, and should be done by experts only. One must expect high-voltage charges to remain in various circuits, even after the computer has been switched off.

Yes, the PRAM can be reset (see KB article # 2238). And one may start with extensions off (by holding down the Shift key).

Jan

Reply

Answer 2

Debberss Author

Level 2

245 points

Oct 30, 2005 1:01 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Hi Jan,

On the back it says its Model MO420 Manufactured in July 1990.

It looks just like this one but without the II after classic.

I just tried all the keyboard restarts for bypass the hd, reset pram and starting with extensions off. Then I went to the Manual page and looked up an LC550 so I could find out what the button was on top of the keyboard. And found out its the power button..but it doesn't work. So I hooked up one of my Apple Extended ADB keyboards and went thru all the keyboard restarts...and the only thing that changed was when I started the shift key down..the second system extension didn't load..but I still got the error code after the next one.

I put the system disk in my g3 and tried to copy it and got a warning when it tried to copy each item, that there was a disk error. Then I tried to use Disk Warrior to do a graph and I got error codes 2403 & -81. Then I tried to rebuild the directories and got error code 2154.

Before I go and do any to the system start up disk...can I use Disk Warrior 2.1 to repair the directory on a floppy non HFS? And can I use Norton Disk Doctor 6.03 on the floppy if DW doesn't work?

Thanks You,
Deb

Just thought I'd add this. I just tried to see if Norton would bring up the disk in the window for repair and it doesn't, not even after I clicked "show missing disk"

DW does recognize it even though its icon is not on the desktop.

Reply

Answer 3

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Oct 30, 2005 2:38 PM in response to Debberss

Hi Deb,

I am not sure about the model number, but everything else indicates that it is the normal Macintosh Classic.

The power key on the keyboard is, as you now know, not used with all Macs.

Since you apparently have access to a G3 with a (built-in?) floppy drive, you may be able to create a bootable floppy from, for example, the British System 7.0.1 Disk Tools disk image (link above). The operating system used on the G3 may affect things; try a version as early as possible. Use Disk Copy 4.2 (the Make A Copy button) or 6.3.3 (the Make a Floppy command from the Utilities menu) in order to produce a correctly sector-copied disk.

What happens if you try to start from the floppy made from the downloaded file?

Generally, avoid opening System 6/7 floppies on a machine running a modern OS, unless the diskettes are in the write-protected position.

Sorry, I do not know anything about the DiskWarrior and Norton Utilities versions mentioned.

Jan

Reply

Answer 4

Debberss Author

Level 2

245 points

Oct 30, 2005 5:37 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

Hi Jan

Wow how strange is this, I went looking thru some boxes to see if I could maybe find my SE disks and found a backup set of Norton 3.5 software
I put in the Speed Disk Start Up Disk and held down the appropriate keys and it started booting up with that disk ..But then it said I need an 68020 processor to run that version, dang missed it by 00020...lol

I did download the 6.08 1.44 disks from an Apple site put them on a CD (to get them over to the g3) but I didn't know I had to do the Disk Copy procedure, thanks for letting me know that...I would have just dragged them over and copied them over to a blank floppy..lol

I'm going to make disks and try and boot it up.

Will be back with an update.

Thanks Jan

Deb

Reply

Answer 5

Debberss Author

Level 2

245 points

Oct 30, 2005 7:06 PM in response to Debberss

Ok...here's what I got..When I was unstuffing the systems I downloaded...a Shrinkwrap error came up -56...but it still unstuffed them. Made two disks and booted up with the system startup. Then I updated the driver and then tested the hd...and it came back failed.

So I ran Disk First Aid and it repaired what needed to be repaired.

Now for the reboot.

It came back out of memory...drats....
On the upside while I was searching for a blank disk, I found a set of Nortion Utilities 3.1 Org disks...lol

Is there something I should turn off ..like 32 bit addressing, increase memory somewhere. I tried to install a new system but the switch disc was greyed out...this was before the this last reboot.

When I rebooted from the disk I made...the Mac HD icon wasn't on the desktop. I ran HD setup and it saw it and now I'm testing it.

Thanks
Deb

Reply

Answer 6

Debberss Author

Level 2

245 points

Oct 31, 2005 1:44 AM in response to Debberss

Yeeepeee. Problem solved....Thank you Jan...If I weren't for you, I'd still be trying to figure out why the disk I made weren't working..lol I couldn't have done without you.

I booted up with the disk you told me how to make, and then took the 3 extensions, out of the system folder, that were loading right before the system error "out of memory error" I took a couple of other ones out as a precaution. Then rebooted it and it worked fine. I put the 3 extension back in the system folder, cause they were font related, and kept out the ones I felt weren't being used..

There is only 2048k of Ram memory and Finder was using 1600k and the System was using 400K.

How she's was able to run Word and Write on it, with no ram left is beyond me. I opened up Word. and went to check "about finder" to see where the ram was being allocated after I opened Word, but I couldnt't get finder back until I quit Word.

I checked on upgrading the Ram and found conflicting reports. Some said 2mb some said 10mb, any way I find out for sure what the max is?

Thanks again Jan for your help here on the eMac board.

Deb

Reply

Answer 7

Jan Hedlund

Level 7

24,235 points

Oct 31, 2005 4:57 AM in response to Debberss

Deb,

Glad to hear that you solved it. It appears as if some of the extensions somehow put a heavy load on the system. BTW, exactly which OS version is installed? You may even want to consider a clean system installation.

The plain Macintosh Classic has 1 MB on board, and can be expanded (with 3 MB) to a total of 4 MB. See also the text in the technical specifications (link above). Special procedures are involved, so it may not be a bad idea to read Larry Pina's book Mac Classic & SE Repair and Upgrade Secrets (ISBN 1-56609-022-9); your local library could possibly help you locate it.

Jan

Reply

Answer 8

Nov 1, 2005 10:01 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

You may also look(for upgrading) at:
http://www.whoopis.com/computerrepair/Classic_Classic_IIPe%23C57BB.pdf
Good luck

Reply

Answer 9

Nov 5, 2005 3:37 PM in response to Debberss

For whatever reason, the Mac Classic also had System 6 in ROM.
You can boot to it by booting while holding down the Apple X and O keys on the keyboard.

Reply

Answer 10

Debberss Author

Level 2

245 points

Nov 5, 2005 6:59 PM in response to Debberss

Hi Everyone,

Thanks for all help and links.

Hi Matthew, The Classic wouldn't respond to any keyboard command, (Apple X O , PRAM Reset, Ext off, boot up from floppy etc). But that could have been a keyboard issue not the Classics.

Hi Jan, It was running OS 6.07, but the disks I used to boot it were 6.08 and used Disk FirstAid to repair it. I didn't install a new system due to the low RAM issue and storage.

I told him I do the RAM upgrade if he decides he wants to go that route. Thanks for the tip on the Upgrade Secret Book, I will definitely check it out.

Hi AppleIIFreak, Thanks for the link to the PDF on the Classic upgrade PDF . That is a great site.

Thanks again everyone for all your help

Deb

Reply

Answer 11

Debberss Author

Level 2

245 points

Nov 10, 2005 11:17 AM in response to Debberss

I just came across a PDF file called, "Macintosh ROM Secrets" and here is an excerpt on the Classic booting from ROM

4) HIDDEN STARTUP DISK IN CLASSIC ROM
The Macintosh Classic has an "undocumented feature": a complete, bootable system "disk" in ROM. This was an experiment in creating a "diskless workstation" machine that apparently wasn't considered important enough to mention as a feature. Rumor has it that the Macintosh LC and IIsi also contain a hidden ROM disk, but this has not yet been verified.
To access the hidden disk, reboot the Macintosh Classic while holding down cmd-option-x-o.
When the Finder comes up, the ROM disk should appear on the desktop. Note that you can use the Startup Device cdev to specify this disk as the startup device; subsequently, the machine will boot from ROM without the need for a "real" startup disk (handy, if you've only got one floppy disk drive.)

Basically to boot from the ROM the keyboard combination is APPLE + OPT + X + O. Thats why it wouldn't boot on mine. I was using APPLE + X + O.

I'm going to post the other three ROM secrets in a new topic.

Deb

Reply