Loading OS 9 on iMac G4

Hi, Megelll -

Welcome to Apple's Discussions.

These machines should be able to load OS 9?

Only the first iMac G4, the 15" model released in 2002, was OS 9-bootable but required the model-specific version of OS 9.2.2 that shipped with it. All other iMac G4s, including your 20" model, are not OS 9 bootable, but do have the ability to use Classic.

No iMac G4 can use an OS 9.2.1 Install CD.

In order to install Classic, you will need to use the original disk set that came with your machine. One or more of the following Apple KBase articles should help in installing Classic -
Article #61802 - How to restore your Apple software
Article #106294 - Mac OS X: How to reinstall Mac OS 9
Article #107383 - Mac OS X 10.2, 10.3: How to perform Mac OS 9 clean installation with Restore CDs
Article #151871 - Mac OS X 10.3: Installing Classic

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As an alternate, you should be able to copy a working OS 9.2.1 or 9.2.2 System Folder from another machine and have it work as Classic (your later version of OSX may need to update a few files in such a folder, but has the ability to do that). This copy need not be done with a cloning utility - a simple Finder copy (drag and drop) should work fine.

Note - copying the System Folder from an OS 9 Install CD will not work.

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I would put in Mac Book Pro and install thru firewire while iMac is in target mode, but laptop immediately says can't load this system.

Correct. A MacBook Pro machine is an Intel-processor machine. As such it can not boot to OS 9, nor even use Classic - hence an OS 9 Install CD (any version) is useless with it.

Hi, Megelll -

Also - I did "copy" system folder from one of my old, old original CD's of OS 9.2.1 and put it in same place as the OS X system folder.

When I go to startup disk is system pref. is does not show up?

As I noted in my previous reply, an OS 9 System Folder copied from a CD will not work, neither for Classic nor for booting (on those machines which are OS 9 bootable).

Your iMac is not OS 9 bootable - no iMac 20" Flat Panel machine is. There is no workaround for this, it is a hardware restriction for the machine itself.

Is it possible that somewhere along the way to 10.4.11 there was some kind of firmware update that prevents ever loading OS 9.

No - there have been no firmware updates released for that model.
Article #86117 - Firmware Updates

Your machine can use OS 9 only in the form of Classic. There are only two ways to get a functioning Classic onto the hard drive -

• Install Classic from the original disk set that came with the machine. It is customary to include those disks when a machine is resold; you might contact the seller and push a bit to see if you can get them.

• Copy a working OS 9.1 (OS 9.2.1 or 9.2.2 is better) System Folder from another Mac. Copying the System Folder from an OS 9 Install CD or Restore CD will not work - those System Folders arenon-standard; they have been modified to the point that they will not function when copied to another volume.

Don, I am seeing people on the Leopard part of the discussion saying you can partition a volume on a G4 machine and boot up OS 9, while running Leopard on your main start-up volume. This is exactly what I had hoped to do, but now I am understanding from you that it cannot work, or perhaps it could but only if you had 10.3 or 10.4 preserved on its own volume, just for operating Classic. Is that accurate???

Hi, Mike -

Is that accurate?

It all depends on the machine model.

In the case of this thread, the original poster is referring to an iMac G4 model - only the original model in the Flat Panel iMac machine series could boot to OS 9; all the rest can use it only as Classic.

In the case of G4 desktop (tower) models, all can boot to some version of OS 9 except for the G4 MDD FW800 models (those which have a firewire 800 port) - this latter model can use OS 9 as Classic, but can not boot to OS 9.

Your G4 dual 1.42GHz machine, provided it is not an earlier model with a processor upgrade, is a FW800 model, and so is not OS 9 bootable. There is no workaround for this. It can use OS 9 as Classic.

However, there is another limitation which is machine independent - Leopard (OSX 10.5) does not support Classic. There is no direct workaround for that.

If you need to have Classic available on that machine, one path would be to partition the hard drive so that you can install both OSX 10.4 (or an earlier version of OSX) plus OS 9 (Classic) on their own volume separate from the volume on which you have Leopard. OS 9 and the pre-Leopard OSX can be on the same volume. Note that partitioning an unpartitioned drive will erase all of it, so you would first need to back up all data you do not want to lose.

However, the easiest way for you to do that would be to install a second internal hard drive. This can be partitioned with one partition (volume) set aside for Classic and pre-Leopard OSX, and the remainder used for file archiving and backup; or as an unpartitioned drive with all of it dedicated to Classic and its parent OSX. Adding a second drive would eliminate the trauma of having to archive the entire drive you have now.

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There is the possibility of another workaround. There are some third-party emulators available which are designed to address the lack of support for Classic on Intel-processor Macs. The one most commonly mentioned in these forums is SheepShaver; you can get more info on it at these sites -
http://sheepshaver.cebix.net/
http://gwenole.beauchesne.info/projects/sheepshaver/
http://theappleblog.com/2006/07/01/classic-on-intel-macs-courtesy-of-sheepshaver /

Note - the latest version of OS 9 thjat SheepShaver supports is OS 9.0.4. Unfortunately, none of the sites I have found for it address whether SheepShaver will work with Leopard. And, it may be that even if it does, it may not meet your needs.

Target Mode and any Mac that can boot that CD should work fine... btw, I get more work done in OS9 than OSX! 🙂

I use Tiger for 2 things, playing Civ4 & helping out with all the Tiger problems. I use Leopard when I want Tiger to look good to me!

Thanks very much for all the information Don. Your knowledge is considerable! I am not surprised that this "upgrade" is going to cost me countless hours to get thing running smoothly again. I have a 120 and 160 GB hard drives in this Dual G4 tower. I will follow your advice. I will have 10.3 and Classic on one drive and 10.5 on the other.

Mike

Hi, Megelll -

I can't get this G4 17" or my 20" to "startup from CD" which is required to load the system.

Correct. "Start up" from a CD means to boot to the OS on the CD - and neither of those machines are OS 9 bootable. Since the installer on all stand-alone OS 9 install CDs runs only when the machine is booted to OS 9, that CD can not be used to install OS 9 (Classic) on those machines.

In addition, OSX needs to add (or in some cases update) certain files in an OS 9 System Folder in order to make it usable as Classic. Since an OS 9 Install CD can not be written to, those files can neither be added nor updated, hence the System Folder on the CD can not be used as Classic. Unfortunately, copying the System Folder from an OS 9 Install CD to the hard drive will not work as Classic (nor as a bootable OS on OS 9 bootable machines).

Again, if you need Classic, you will need to install it from an original disk set for that machine model; or by copying a working OS 9.1, 9.2.1, or 9.2.2 System Folder from another Mac.

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I don't want to BOOT to OS 9 at all (does anybody???).

I use only OS 9; OS 9.1, to be precise. It does what I want, runs all the programs I need and want to use. Until I get a new machine which is not OS 9 bootable, I'll probably continue to use OS 9.

Now I have the OS 9 system folder that I copied from an old OS 9 CD and I can't THROW IT IN THE TRASH???

What exactly are you saying? Permissions not right?

Look for "Force Delete", or get BatchMod and change the permissions so you can. 🙂

Hi, Megelll -

Now I have the OS 9 system folder that I copied from an old OS 9 CD and I can't THROW IT IN THE TRASH?

Try this - open that System Folder and drag the file named Finder out onto the desktop. Restart the machine. Then see if you can throw away that System Folder, then the loose file Finder.

Mhhhh... not sure.
I saw people installing OS 9 on Intel Macs.
I don't know if they are able to boot into OS 9 or only as Classic.
I'm very interested on this issue.