G3 CD boot issues with non Apple keyboard?

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G3 CD boot issues with non Apple keyboard?

I recently bought an iMac G3 350MHz that won't boot all the way into OS 9.1. It says there is an error with extensions and to restart, holding Shift to disable them. I did and I am greeted by the same message. I'm using a Logitech USB keyboard and wondering if that has anything to do with it.

I've tried booting from an OS 9.2 disc with no luck. I'm holding C at boot (before and after I turn it on). I have tried Command-Option-Shift-Backspace and Command-Option-O-F ...AND holding space to eject the disc and that won't even work. So now I have a sick iMac with an OS 9.2 disc stuck in it and I have no clue what to do next. I'm thinking since none of the keyboard commands work, it might be that the Logitech keyboard isn't supported till the OS boots. Since it doesn't have Firewire, I can't try Target Disc Mode...not that I have an available Firewire drive either.

Any suggestions would be very much appreciated. I was hoping it would be a simple fix but now I'm ready to throw it out.

2.0Ghz Macbook (Black), Mac OS X (10.5), and Windoze

Posted on Dec 7, 2007 10:14 AM

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Answer 1

Allan Jones

Level 9

78,320 points

Dec 7, 2007 10:38 AM in response to Monkiki

Hold down the mouse button while booting; as I recall, that ejects the optical drive contents

A third-party keyboard could well be the problem. Although Logitech has a decent enough reputation among many Mac users (we have four or five of their MX 310 mice), it's possible that they sell one keyboard that is "generic" and another that's ready for Mac. You might contact them to see if they can help.

I took a little break and looked at the Logitech keyboard page here:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/keyboards/keyboards/&cl=us,en

Although nearly all listed are USB, the fact that only one shows the Mac logo suggests that all may type OK on a Mac but may not have the underpinnings required to transmit the special start-up key combo commands.

Used Apple keyboard are available and relatively cheap. Try a search for "mac keyboard' in any of the search engines.

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Answer 2

Monkiki Author

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Dec 7, 2007 10:47 AM in response to Allan Jones

Ah, the mouse button. That's right. I'm still sort of a Mac noob. Had a Mini and now a Macbook, but that's the limit of my Mac hardware experience. I'll try the mouse button. Any idea if a newer (just before the aluminum) Apple keyboards would work with the startup commands? I have access to one but have to make a trip to get it. Also wondering if I could clone the drive or install to it from another Mac and then reinstall it into the iMac. I'd probably have to do it from a PowerPC Mac though.

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Answer 3

Allan Jones

Level 9

78,320 points

Dec 7, 2007 11:14 AM in response to Monkiki

Any Apple USB board before the Aluminum ones should do the trick. Probably worth the trip.

I think that, with an Apple board in hand, you can probably proceed with a normal install. I've not cloned drives but I've pulled them and either, a) installed them in another Mac, or b) connected them to another Mac with an ATA-to-USB connector (see image).

The last time I did the USB adaptor thing was when a friend was given an old G3 PowerBook "for parts" but we discovered it was working. The only problem was the orig owner had set password protection and, because the 'puter sat unused for several yeas, forgot his code before giving it away. I pulled the drive and attached it to my G4 MDD with the adaptor cable. That allowed me to disable the security extensions so we could work on the PowerBook when I reinstalled its drive.

So, yes, many avenues are possible but I believe having an Apple board will take care of the problem for you and you won't need to resort to the exotica to get running. If I'm wrong, then we can discuss the next steps.

Allan

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Answer 4

Monkiki Author

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Dec 7, 2007 11:12 PM in response to Allan Jones

Alrighty, I picked up one of the new aluminum Apple keyboards and I can now utilize the startup commands. I couldn't get it to boot from the CD so I'm wondering if there is something wrong with the CD not being bootable. When I put the disc in my Macbook, it pops up with the 'Install OS 9.2' stuff so it is readable. Not quite sure what else I can do at this point.

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Answer 5

Allan Jones

Level 9

78,320 points

Dec 8, 2007 10:17 AM in response to Monkiki

Sorry I was late getting back on this. They did some maintenance last night that locked out a number of members, and I;ve been trying to get back in for the last three hours.

According to the Apple page for that fancy new keyboard, you need 10.4.10 to use it. There are a lot of gripes about the board not supporting earlier systems. Let's not throw out the CD-ROM or the CD just yet.

What does the install CD you're trying to use look like (such as color and patterns printed on it) and what doe the printing say?

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Answer 6

Monkiki Author

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Dec 8, 2007 3:12 PM in response to Allan Jones

When I picked up the keyboard I noticed that it said it required 10.4 but I had been wanting to get one anyways and took the plunge. Well, that and they didn't have any older ones. 🙂 It does work though. I can vouch for that. It might 'require' 10.4 for the media functions or something other than the standard ones...especially since it tells you to check Software Update for the keyboard software, but it doesn't actually come with any.

The CD is a backup from a friend. He didn't want to loan me his originals so he let me borrow the backup. I read something about backups not being bootable then read that you could force it to look for other System folders to boot from.....I'm lost at exactly how that works. Is there anything I can do with the discs I have or should I try and get the originals from my friend? The only Mac OS originals I have are for 10.4 and 10.5. I know G3's aren't officially supported for 10.4 but I was hoping I might be able to coax it into accepting Tiger. If not, I'll try to find 10.3 but I still need to get past my inability to boot into 9.2.

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Answer 7

Allan Jones

Level 9

78,320 points

Dec 9, 2007 10:26 AM in response to Monkiki

Glad to hear the Al keyboard's OS specs don't make it a "no-go." Looks like a nifty bit of kit.

The CD is a backup from a friend.

Could be the heart of the problem from the start. And using a friend's disk would be a EULA violation unless that system isn't currently installed on any of his computers.

Tiger (10.4) WILL work on a G3 but your lack of a DVD drive and FireWire ports (for using FW Target Disk Mode to get around the DVD limitation) does present a problem. It's possible to get Tiger on without the DVD drive as illustrated in this article:

http://www.oreillynet.com/mac/blog/2005/05/thecats_mustachesinstalling.html

but it would be easier if your iMac had FireWire. The only part of the article that's incorrect is that the Media Exchange Program expired some time ago.

Panther is still out there with third-party resellers but you have to be careful in buying it. Full retail install disks are black with a big silver X and come on CDs, not DVDs. Gray disks are machine specific restore disks and may not have all the stuff your computer needs, aggravating the whole process. If you order a full retail install set and receive gray disks, send them back.

Before installing OSX (and I mean BEFORE), you have to update the firmware on your iMac to 4.1.9 while still in OS9. The process is relatively simple and full instructions are included with the download here:

http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=75130

Failing to do the firmware update before attempting an OSX install can have serious consequences. If the firmware has already been updated the 4.1.9 updater will politely tell you that it's already there.

Allan

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Answer 8

Monkiki Author

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Dec 9, 2007 12:10 PM in response to Allan Jones

I ended up using the originals for OS 9.2 and have updated the firmware. I know about the legalities and he isn't running OS 9.2 on any of his Macs. He just has the discs and wants to hang onto them. Collection I guess. I have a USB DVD drive. I'm not sure if that'll though. If not and I have to get the CD version of Tiger, would it actually let me install it even though I don't have a firewire port?

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Answer 9

Allan Jones

Level 9

78,320 points

Dec 10, 2007 7:54 AM in response to Monkiki

Hi Monkiki,

I was away from the computer a good part of yesterday so got behind. Some of the other L4s confirmed their Al keyboards would take the "c" key shortcut to do a CD boot when using systems less than 10.4. However, it looks like you;re now beyond that. Good.

Also good that the OS9 disks were "unfettered." Progress!

I do not believe a USB DVD external drive is bootable on your machine, so wouldn't do for installation of Tiger. Even if it were, the installation would take hours at USB 1.1 speeds.

would it actually let me install it even though I don't have a firewire port?

Dunno. However, I believe there are people here with Tiger on pre-FireWire iMacs. Might review some other posts.

Looks like the only way to get OSX without spending any more money is to remove the drive form the iMac, install it into a Mac with a DVD drive and do the Tiger install, then move the drive nack. I;ve not gone this before but I know others have with success.

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