Kenwood KDC-MP4028 w/ KCA-iP500 ipod interface

I am experiencing the same problem. I have yet to find a solution, nor hear back from Kenwood to my inquiry on their web site.

I have a KDC-MP6090R w/KCA-IP500 and am seeing the exact same symptoms. Very annoying.

To be honest I didn't even notice the charging and shutting down problems until several days after getting the Classic because in every other way the performance with the Kenwood kit is better even that that of my old iPod Photo. Navigation between playlists and tracks is lightning fast, and when I shut off the head unit the iPod doesn't sit there for several seconds before I can safely disconnect like the old one did.

All of which makes the charging problem all the more frustrating. And what really takes the cake is that if I disconnect and reconnect the lead a few times while the ignition is on, it's actually possible to get the iPod to start charging! It's just so random and infrequent as to be practically useless.

I really do hope there's a firmware fix for this. While my Kenwood head unit is positively archaic in ICE terms, I'm reluctant to replace it because most of the current compatible recievers are butt ugly, or have fewer characters in the display than my old one, or both! The only exceptions are the ones with OEL displays, and I refuse to spend that sort of money sorting out a problem I didn't create in the first place.

Do Apple support people read these forums, or is there somewhere I can e-mail or write to regarding this problem? Perhaps if enough IP500 owners rattle the cages...

Thanks for the link. I've sent Apple some feedback regarding this issue and asking about the possibility of a firmware upgrade. Whether anything happens remains to be seen.

Right now I'd even settle for a definite "it's legacy gear; no chance of an update" statement, so I could start looking at alternative solutions such as butchering the iP500 cable. But I'd rather not go down that route if there's a firmware solution.

Actually, having just looked at some sites containing iPod dock pinout details, I'm beginning to think there might not be a firmware solution. Some dock connection types and mode changes are instigated by the presence of fixed value resistors across certain lines, and if the iPod Classic hardware has been changed such that it simply doesn't "recognise" these legacy cables it could be a non-starter. On the other hand my two Altec Lansing docking stations still work with (and charge) the Classic so there must be some commonality.

I guess we just have to wait and see what, if anything, Apple has to say.

Just an FYI to this problem:

The KCA-iP500 is not "legacy equipment". Although the majority of the new head untis that Kenwood make have USB support so they would use the KCA-iP200 or KCA-iP300v, they still manufacture new head units without USB support. These head units are only iPod compatible with the KCA-iP500. One such head unit that I know of is the DDX6019, which only can use the KCA-iP500 for iPod support.

So, I talked to someone from technical support at Kenwood today, and this was the information that I was given. There is a new Kenwood firmware that is required to support the 6G iPod Classics, the 3G iPod Nanos, and the Touch on all Kenwood iPod cables (KCA-iP200, KCA-iP300v, and the KCA-iP500). Kenwood just released the new firmware for the KCA-iP200 and the KCA-iP300v last month. He said that they are woking on an update to make the KCA-iP500 compatible with these new iPods, and it should be 1-2 months before that update is available.

Hopefully that helps everyone, and I know that it will save me from upgrading head units right away.

Thanks for the info. But ****...1-2 months? That's a while to wait. But I guess I have no choice. I can't return it now.

Again, thanks for the info.

I don't mind waiting 1-2 months, but what concerns me is that the firmware updates as posted on Kenwood's website are for the head units themselves rather than the iPod interfaces and, while Kenwood may still be producing head units compatible with the iP500, my own head unit (the KDC-MP6090R) dates from at least 2001 and possibly earlier. That makes it positively archaic, and my fear is that this will make it an unlikely candidate for an upgrade unless it's fortunate enough to share much of its firmware with a later model.

Kenwood might yet surprise me and eventually release updates for all iP500 compatible head units, but I'm afraid I'm a little too cynical to assume this. I'll keep my eye on their website, but I won't be holding my breath in anticipation.

For myself and anyone else with an older Kenwood head unit, I hope I'm wrong.

Same problem here...

With my new 160GB iPod Classic, KCA-iP500 and KDC-MP2029 I get scrambled text and NO CHARGING!!

I have been running this setup fine for the last two years with my 20GB iPod Photo - what the **** is going on Apple?!?

It would appear the docking connector has been changed, because my (original Apple) AV cable no longer works either. So, I have to buy:-

1) A new AV cable ($79)
2) A new car stereo??
3) A new iPod adaptor for the new stereo??

If Apple can explain some OTHER reason why older docking connectors won't work/charge and the headphone/AV jack has changed to audio only I would LOVE to hear it.

Right now, from where I'm standing it's just a ****-poor attempt to screw more money from 'loyal' customers.

Nothing more, nothing less.

The problem with the AV lead isn't really relevant here. It is indeed a choice by Apple, although arguably their hand was forced by the content providers. Do a search for "ipod av drm" or similar and you'll see what the problem is. Basically the iPod is now so ****** good at moving high quality video around and displaying it on third-party screens that some sort of content protection was deemed necessary. Apple have gone for the chipped-cable route.

As for your Kenwood head unit, a bit of Googling suggests it's a re-branded KDC-MP4029, which is about three years old. You might be in luck as regards a firmware upgrade because it's still a reasonably recent unit. I'd keep an eye on Kenwood's websites.

It still puzzles me as to why these firmware changes are necessary in the first place. As I mentioned elsewhere, my other (audio-only) third-party docks work perfectly with the Classic, as does my pre-Classic Apple USB lead, so the connector can't have changed that much. Since the new cable requirements are supposed to be for the video functions, why is the (audio-only) iP500 giving trouble? I can perhaps understand it with the newer video-capable USB interface...

Still, whoever is to blame the ball is now firmly in Kenwood's court. The fact that they are producing some firmware upgrades is obviously promising, but I'm still concerned that the age of my head unit is going to leave me stranded and requiring a new one.

Just a quick update, in case this IS an iPod firmware issue...

When I plug the iPod into my KCA-ip500, IF the battery is fully charged, it shows a little 'plug' icon in the battery icon.

If the battery is not fully charged, the plug disappears when the iPod is connected.

In each case, when the Kenwood head unit is powered up...

That was as of firmware version 1.0.3 - haven't tried it with 1.1 yet...

For info:

I have a Kenwood KCA-IP500 connected to a KDC-W707

This combo worked flawlessly with my 5G ipod, but since getting the 80Gb. Classic I'm having nothing but problems...

1). The iPod won't shut down when the car ignition is switched off - therefore the following morning you get 'eject' on the head unit, and 'connect to power' on the iPod - it doesn't seem to recognise the power being fed from the Kenwood unit, so you have to connect it to a normal iPod car charger to get it going again.

2). The iPod randomly resets itself - you have to unplug it from the Kenwood and let it reset, then re-connect it again.

3). The sound randomly disappears, albeit the head unit still displays that the music is playing.

The KDC-W707 isn't flash upgradeable as far as I know (maybe someone will correct me?) so it would appear that I'm basically stuffed.

I'm sure it's either a firmware or pin wiring issue, as I've tried the old 5G iPod again and the unit works perfectly.

Presumably other people are having the same experiences as me.

Come on Apple! - sort it out will you?

Chris

* edit....

Upon checking the Kenwood website, it would appear that the only flash-upgradeable head units are those with a usb port. (see http://www.kenwood.com/usb/pdf/cdusbr_fwverupen.pdf ).

This leaves me stuffed, because my KDC-W707, despite being a bloody good unit, is simply too old to be of any use (see http://www.kenwood-electronics.co.uk/products/car/cd_receivers/KDC-W707/details/ )

Message was edited by: welshchris

Until welshchris re-posted the link to the Kenwood update page I'd had no reason to look at it too closely, but it would appear as though he's right. The document clearly states that only USB media, not CD media, can be used for firmware updates. It doesn't sound as though pre-USB head units will be upgradeable, and a quick Google for "kenwood firmware upgrade cd" returns nothing that suggests otherwise.

On the other hand Cabell76 claims to have spoken to someone at Kenwood who posits that an upgrade to the iP500 itself may be in the works, so does this older module have a different way of accepting firmware updates or was the Kenwood guy in error?

In the mean time I've had a chance to play around with the iP500 and my new Classic (updated to v1.1) in various charge states, and can confirm what IaninSydney says, namely that the iPod does appear to accept external power through the Kenwood unit (in so much as the 'lightning' icon appears in the top-right corner) but only if the battery is already fully charged. This is extremely odd behaviour, and may be the reason why I didn't notice any problems when I first got the Classic -- the battery was already fully charged from being connected to iTunes overnight.

Something else I noticed is that, if the battery is fully charged and the lightning icon appears, the word 'Connected' at the bottom of the iPod screen is replaced by the current track information as selected by the head unit. I'd not noticed that before either. Something is definitely working differently when the battery is 100%.

This whole situation really is a head-scratcher. I haven't had any of the more alarming symptoms as reported by other users (missing audio, random shutdown etc.) so from my POV all I'm seeing is that the Classic refuses to acknowledge that it's connected to an external power source unless its battery is already fully charged.

That's insane, and seems like such a minor compatibility issue that I can't believe Apple haven't sorted it out.

The only positive take I have on this situation is that, because I've seen other docking stations (Altec-Lansing amplifiers) successfully charge and switch off the Classic, I know that there is a hardware solution to the problem even if it means physically hacking into the iP500 and adding and/or bypassing power and switching lines to the harness. The end result would be a hybrid connector that provides power switching as if from the amplifier, and communications to and from the iP500. Of course if I start to see the other symptoms reported here and elsewhere it just won't be worth the effort.

But at the end of the day we shouldn't have to do this. One of the things I always admired about Apple, and especially the iPod, was the backward- and cross-compatibility of hardware in a world where everyone else's hardware seemed to be going from bleeding edge to unsupported legacy in shorter and shorter cycles. Sadly, it looks as though my admiration was misplaced.

I have had confirmation from Kenwood that only usb head units can have the firmware updated. The KCA-IP500 is only upgradeable by Kenwood themselves, and it is this unit that's causing the problem rather than the H/U itself.

Kenwood stress that the problems are caused by the Apple firmware that was built into the Classic, and that subsequent Apple firmware upgrades have failed to fix it. They say (quite rightly) that it's futile to constantly update their hardware to cater for Apple moving the goalposts.

Interesting thread here on this forum relating to BMW owners with the same problem:

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1131146&tstart=60

Their problems with power shut-off are similar, and some insist that firmware 1.1 has fixed it - I have yet to properly check mine with my Kenwood gear though.

Chris

Message was edited by: welshchris

In light of the link to the BMW forum I wanted to verify some of my findings before posting again, so I've just been out to the car and tried my v1.1 Classic with various combinations of ignition on, stereo off, stereo on, ignition off, iPod connected before ignition, iPod connected after ignition etc.

The only thing that seems to have changed is that the iPod now displays the name of the currently playing track just above the OK To Disconnect message at any time it is connected to the harness, not just when it is fully charged as I stated in an earlier message.

However, neither the 'charging' icon nor the switch-off-with-ignition function is anywhere to be seen.

We can still hope that Apple might pull some miracle cure out of the bag for this one, but I'm not holding my breath. Time to start butchering the iP500. Having looked at the pinouts for the Apple Dock connector I live in the small hope that this whole thing might be something as simple as a tighter tolerance required for the pull-down resistor that tells the iPod it's in a powered dock.

That doesn't exactly fit with Kenwood's insistence that it's a "firmware" problem, but then Kenwood weren't exactly truthful with their "1-2 months" estimate for an iP500 fix either.