"Keys out of order" message in Disk Utility

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Level 1

9 points

"Keys out of order" message in Disk Utility

Hi,

I was just doing a regular maintenance check with Onyx and to my surprise it said I needed to repair the disk using the Installer DVD and Disk Utility.

I did this and again to my surprise I seem to have a problem.

After the whole processs is complete these messages come up:

"keys out of order" (in red)

1 HFS Volume repaired (in green)
1 Volume could not be repaired (in red)

I don't know what to do about this. On the one hand my system seems to be running fine, but on the other if these errors are coming up then surely there is an issue which I need to resolve.

Could someone enlighten me on what to do next?

powerbook g4 1.33ghz / 2gb ram / 60 gig toshiba HDD, Mac OS X (10.4.9)

Posted on Jan 14, 2008 6:36 AM

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Answer 1

Top-ranking reply

joeuu

Level 5

5,089 points

Jan 14, 2008 7:01 AM in response to recall

See if this helps:

_ http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=13628_

And Thank that Tuttle guy for:

"A 'Keys out of order' error indicates serious problems with your file directories. You may be able to fix the 'keys out of order' by running fsck in single user mode. Boot your machine holding down the Command+S keys immediately after the startup chime. At the command line prompt, type:

/sbin/fsck -fy

(note that there is a space between the k and -fy)

and press the Return key. After the system runs a file system check and attempts repairs, you will see one of two messages, 'The volume (nameof volume) appears to be OK' or, more likely a message telling you (among other things, 'FILE SYSTEM WAS MODIFIED.'

If you do not see the first message, run fsck again as many times as necessary, until you do. If you don't see that message after running fsck six or seven times, then you might try using Disk Warrior again. If Disk Warrior cannot fix the problem, then it is likely you will need to erase (writing zeros) and reformat your drive and reinstall your OS.

Read more about fsck, here: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=106214"

Joe

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Answer 2

eww

Level 9

53,052 points

Jan 14, 2008 2:42 PM in response to recall

Hi, recall. If your G5 is running any OS between 10.3.9 and 10.4.11, purchase and download DiskWarrrior to that machine and install it there. When your Powerbook is connected to it in FireWire Target Disk mode, run DiskWarrior from the G5 and use it to rebuild the directory on the Powerbook's hard drive.

If you have, or if you get in the future, an external Firewire hard drive to use with the Powerbook, install DiskWarrior on the Powerbook's hard drive and clone that drive to the external, or a partition on the external. Then you'll be able to start up from each drive to make directory repairs to the other, and each will also serve as a backup for the other.

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Answer 3

eww

Level 9

53,052 points

Jan 20, 2008 5:45 AM in response to recall

One question. If I am cloning a drive which I am having trouble with won't that just preserve all the problems to a new disk image?

If you are cloning or trying to clone damaged/corrupt files, then yes, the clone will also contain them. If the problems you're having with the old drive are caused by a damaged directory on that drive, there may be some damaged files on it that you haven't discovered (because you haven't opened them since they were damaged). Directory problems on the drive may even prevent the cloning operation from being completed.

A drive that you're really struggling with may therefore not be a very good candidate for cloning. It may be wisest to begin instead by copying your most indispensable data to CDs or DVDs so you'll be certain it's backed up even if cloning later fails. Once that's done, try cloning the whole drive.

Ideally, you would always repair the drive and the permissions on it with Disk Utility or another utility application, run the routine maintenance tasks, and generally make sure the drive is in top condition before cloning it. That minimizes the number of problems that are replicated on the clone.

Directory damage can be caused by an incipient failure of the hard drive itself, and when that's the case, it will probably recur soon after directory repairs are made. If you suspect a drive is on the verge of failure, but you've already backed up all or nearly all the data on it, use Disk Utility or a third-party utility like Diskwarrior or TechTool Pro to repair the drive's directory, then finish backing up or re-clone immediately, to be as sure as possible that your backup or clone is good. If problems reappear very soon, be suspicious of the drive hardware, which no software utility can repair.

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Answer 4

eww

Level 9

53,052 points

Jan 16, 2008 7:50 AM in response to recall

The fragmentation that DiskWarrior's Graph function displays is not fragmentation of the disk. It's just fragmentation of the directory file. DW tells you nothing about fragmentation of the disk.

A free and very easy way to defragment a Mac drive completely is to make a bootable clone of the drive on another drive, erase the original drive, and then clone the clone back onto it. You can use the freeware Carbon Copy Cloner or the freeware version of SuperDuper (which I recommmend) for this purpose.

Something to bear in mind as you go on from here is that no matter what the overall capacity of your hard drive, you should be maintaining more than 2GB of free space on it at all times. With only that amount of free space now, you are in danger of repeated directory corruption and consequent loss of data. Except on 10GB and smaller drives, where it may just not be possible (and where I therefore think installing OS X at all is a mistake), it's best always to maintain a minimum of 5GB of free space — more if you burn CDs or especially DVDs. On drives of 50GB or more, a minimum of 10% of the drive's capacity is a useful rule of thumb, though on really huge drives (>300GB) that may not be necessary.

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Answer 5

recall Author

Level 1

9 points

Jan 14, 2008 1:53 PM in response to joeuu

Hi,
Thanks. Unfortunately my battey died and now I am stuck on the apple logo at reboot. Opening disk utility via the install disk doesn't work as disk utils doesn't recognise any disks (even though I hear them spinning)

I am lucky in that I am able to access th powerbook's HD in target mode via firewire on my G5
so I am going to copy over a lot of my data and then invest in Diskwarrior.

However, I am a little confused with the Diskwarrior website. I would prefer to download as I am not near a shop to buy the software and I would rather not pay for express amazon delivery.

Would I be able to use the download of diskwarrior on my Powerbook?
It seems a little confusing:

"If You Are Purchasing DiskWarrior
Repairing your usual startup disk requires that you start up from another disk. In order to use the download copy of DiskWarrior, you will need to start up from another disk with Mac OS X 10.3.9 through 10.4.x installed. You will then need to run a copy of DiskWarrior from a disk that is not the disk you are repairing. (The DiskWarrior download does not include the Apple System files necessary to create a startup CD.) If you cannot use the download version of the software (i.e. you have only one internal hard drive and this is the drive you wish to repair), please order directly from our sales department or from one of our resellers to be sent the software on CD. If you order via the secure server, you will be sent a CD, but delivery of your CD will take approximately three to four weeks, depending on your location."

Basically I am in a hurry to get my Powerbook working by Thursday my two options are

a)Buy from Amazon and pay extra to get express delivery by wednesday
b)Buy download from Alsoft (with cd version on way in 2-3 weeks)....however if the download version is not sufficient then i'm screwed.

I'd really appreciate help here. It just happens that I have to work away on Thursday....and I therefore need my powerbook. I usually use my G5 in my home studio.

THANKS!!

Message was edited by: recall

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Answer 6

recall Author

Level 1

9 points

Jan 16, 2008 4:35 AM in response to eww

Thanks for rall the help guys. I had DW delivered this morning and am in the process of sorting out the drive.

I wonder if any of you have experience with DW. I have gone through all the steps and am now at the final stage where I have to click "replace" to replace the original directory. I get this message though:

"there is not enough contiguous free space for a fail safe replacement of the directory. It is highly recommended you create 172mb of contiguous free space before replacing the original directory"

There is over 2gb of free space on the disk so in my understanding there should be enough room to do its stuff.

Should I connect my powerbook to my g5 and delete some of my itunes folders to make room?

I don't want to rush and click replace if it is not going to work.

I have lodged a tech support request with Alsoft but I don't know how long they are going to take ot answer.

Any help is much appreciated.

Thanks

Iwan

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Answer 7

eww

Level 9

53,052 points

Jan 16, 2008 5:41 AM in response to recall

Hi, recall. The key word in the message is "contiguous". The 2GB of free space on your hard drive is apparently scattered about the drive in various pieces that are all smaller than 172MB. DiskWarrior wants a single, unbroken chunk of free disk space that size for its own use.

That said, I've never had to deal with that situation myself, and I don't know exactly how to suggest that you proceed. The course of action that seems intuitively obvious would be to locate and trash a single file, folder, or application that's at least that large, and that you could easily reinstall afterward from a backup or from an original installer disc. But in fact there's no guarantee that any existing file, folder or application occupies contiguous space, and I don't know of any way to determine whether it does or not before trashing it. So I would wait for advice from Alsoft before proceeding.

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Answer 8

recall Author

Level 1

9 points

Jan 16, 2008 6:18 AM in response to eww

Hi eew,

Thanks. This is what I thought. The drive was very fragmented (33%) according to the graph. I've been recommended drivegenius to defrag but I really can't afford to spend another £60. From recollection OS X doesn't include a defragger in its utilities does it?

I will have a look later with the powerbook set up in target mode to see if there are any large files I can remove.

I will update then.

Thanks again.

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Answer 9

recall Author

Level 1

9 points

Jan 19, 2008 1:24 PM in response to eww

Hello Everyone.

Just thought I'd update you. I think the disk was in a bad condition. I even had trouble getting the disk into target mode to make a clone. Two clones I attempted aborted halfway fro some reason. So I managed to remove about 15gigs from the drive and then went to diskwarrior,

This worked well and got me back on my feet.

Unfortunately the problem is back again - hanging on the apple logo at startup (had to run DW again), so right now I have a clone of my Powerbook being made to a Lacie drive. I then (if the clone works) plan on erasing and booting back from the clone.

Hopefully this will solve my problems.

I really don't want to do a fresh install.

One question. If I am cloning a drive which I am having trouble with won't that just preserve all the problems to a new disk image?

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Answer 10

recall Author

Level 1

9 points

Jan 20, 2008 8:36 AM in response to eww

Hi Eww,

Thanks again. It does seem there is some fundamental damage there. It seems a little more robust now. I ran Onyx and Disk Utility to verify the disk. They both said it passed. Only DW returned errors.

I think I will ultimately do a full erase/reinstall process.

From DW's disk diagnostics the disk itself appears to be fine. Is there another good program out there to ascertain this?

The clone always stops when encountering an Epson Printer Support file. I have no idea why. It is annoying as it is about 30gigs into the clone. So just when I think everything is OK, it buckles.

I have done a couple of tests of shutting down and restarting just to check that OSX is found properly on startup. Both times it has worked properly although it takes slightly longer than nromal for the blue OSX screen to light up.

If there were to be HD problem would I just need a 2.5" SATA drive to replace the toshiba in my Powerbook?

How much do they normally cost?

Thanks again to everyone in this communtiy who has helped make a problem which seemed very serious, less painful to resolve:)

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