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Is HDMI Output have HDCP on all the time?

I have an older HD TV. It does not have an HDMI input only DVI and it cannot decode HDCP signals. I have an HDMI to DVI adapter and when some programming turns on my HDCP on my DirecTV DVR I cannot watch the program through DVI. Does anyone know if all of Apple TV2 HDMI output has HDCP enabled all the time?

If that is the case Apple will have a lot of unhappy people that buy their HDMI to DVI cable to connect their TV, as very few DVI TV support HDCP.

Mac Pro 2.66 GHz, MacBook Pro 2.1 GHz, eMac G4, PowerMac G4, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Jan 15, 2008 2:15 PM

Reply
9 replies

Jan 15, 2008 4:23 PM in response to Bobbbo

When I bought my PDP, several years ago, I made sure that it was HDCP compliant DVI, since both were readily available. And now, you can't find a HDTV with DVI - they are all HDMI.

You must have one of the early DVI HDTV. By definition HDMI has HDCP. DVI can be either, I believe. There is always component option, however...

Jan 23, 2008 9:59 AM in response to Mk Gonda

This is my post on ATV forum:

Well I think I final found the reason of my 2 year old JVC no worky with HDMI. Old HDMI no gotty:
HDCP which stands for High-Bandwidth Digital Content Protection and was developed by Intel Corporation. The corporations win again or is there a way around?
This link tells the story:

http://tv.about.com/od/hdtv/a/hdmidvihdcp.htm

this is another post of interest:

Posted on: Dec 21, 2007 3:40 AM, by user: SepticBurrito -- Relevance: 9% -- Show all results within this thread

I've done some reading on to why the TV shows 1024x768 over HDMI (from DVI). The TV is reporting to the Mac that it's a 768 capable device because the Mac isn't sending a HDCP signal over HDMI ... anytime soon, because from what I've read Macs don't output HDCP signals over DVI by default. Since ... if HDCP is available, it sends in HDCP and the TV responds by telling the PC it's true resolution

Jan 23, 2008 10:17 AM in response to Mk Gonda

Yes I do have an older set. HDMI does not always have HDCP, by definition, as I have an HDMI HD DVR that I can watch some content on my DVI port through a HDMI to DVI adapter. In fact almost all the SD content on my DVR that is upscaled to 720p I can view on my DVI port. My HDMI output of my HD DVR has HDCP Capabilities but it can be turned on and off by the content providers. The receiving HDMI or DVI monitor must have circuitry to receive the HDCP signal, if not and the HDCP is enabled on the sending device the output will be a black signal.

My original question is does anyone know if the new AppleTV will have the HDCP always turned on?

Jan 23, 2008 10:29 AM in response to spooky tooth

From what I have read as well, computers video generally will not have HDCP circuitry as there will not be high band-width (HD) copyright protected material on the computer. More and more computer monitors today that are 1080p capable and have HDMI inputs are supporting HDCP. This might also be the reason I have not seen Blu-ray many if any computers with Blu-ray drives. I did find an OEM Blu-ray drive that requires a HDCP video card and monitor.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/BusinessProducts/Blu-rayDisc+DVD Writers/Blu-rayDiscWriters/BDC-2202

Here is a link that is a little more in depth on HDCP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HDCP

Jan 23, 2008 11:20 AM in response to Bobbbo

This is from the licening agreement the manufacturers have to follow for HDCP:
They don't allow them to allow HDCP TO BE DISABLED. Must be the key to FREE HD copying

GENERAL IMPLEMENTATION QUESTIONS
1. Has the Licensed Product been designed and manufactured so there are no switches,
buttons, jumpers, or software equivalents of the foregoing, or specific traces that can be cut, by
which the content protection requirements of the HDCP Specification or Compliance Rules can
be defeated or by which Decrypted HDCP Content can be exposed to unauthorized copying?
2. Has the Licensed Product been designed and manufactured so there are no service menus
or other functions (such as remote-control functions, switches, check boxes, or other means) that
can intercept the flow of Decrypted HDCP Content or expose it to unauthorized copying?
3. Does the Licensed Product have service menus, service functions, or service utilities that
can redirect or expose the flow of Decrypted HDCP Content within the device?
If Yes, please describe these service menus, service functions, or service utilities and the
steps that are being taken to ensure that these service tools will not be used to expose or
misdirect Decrypted HDCP Content.
4. Does the Licensed Product have service menus or remote control functions that can
defeat the content protection requirements of the HDCP Specification or Compliance Rules?
If Yes, please describe these service menus or remote control functions and the steps that
are being taken to ensure that these service tools will not be used to defeat the content
protection requirements of the HDCP Specification and Compliance Rules.
5. Explain in detail how the Licensed Product protects the confidentiality of all Device
Keys.
6. If the Licensed Product delivers Decrypted HDCP Content from one portion of the
product to another, whether among software modules, integrated circuits or otherwise or a
combination thereof, explain how such portions have been designed, associated and integrated
with each other so that Decrypted HDCP Content is reasonably secure from interception and
copying as required in Section 3.1 of the Robustness Rules.
7. Are any HDCP functions implemented in Hardware?
If Yes, complete hardware implementation questions.
8. Are any HDCP functions implemented in Software?
If Yes, complete software implementation questions.
SOFTWARE IMPLEMENTATION QUESTIONS
9. In the Licensed Product, describe the method by which all Device Keys are stored in a
protected manner, or that Device Keys are not accessible to software.

10. Using the grep utility or equivalent, are you unable to discover any Device Keys in binary
images of any software?
11. In the Licensed Product, for all HDCP values accessible to software for which
confidentiality or integrity is required as indicated in Table B-1 of the HDCP Specification,
describe the method by which these values are created, held and used in a protected manner.
12. Describe the method being used to prevent commonly available debugging or
decompiling tools (e.g., Softice) from being used to obtain Highly Confidential values contained
within or generated by the HDCP functions implemented in software.
13. Describe the method by which the Licensed Product self-checks the integrity of
component parts in such manner that modifications will cause failure of authorization or
decryption as described in Section 3.2.2 of the Robustness Rules. Describe what happens when
integrity is violated.
14. To assure that integrity self-checking is being performed, perform a test to verify that the
executable will fail to work once a binary editor is used to modify a random byte of the
executable image containing HDCP functions, and describe the method and results of the test.
HARDWARE IMPLEMENTATION QUESTIONS
15. In the Licensed Product, describe the method by which all Device Keys are stored in a
protected manner and how their confidentiality is maintained.
16. Using the grep utility or equivalent, are you unable to discover any Device Keys in binary
images of any persistent memory devices?
17. Describe the method in the Licensed Product by which the HDCP values for which
confidentiality or integrity is required as indicated in Table B-1 of the HDCP Specification, are
created, held and used in a protected manner.
18. Describe the means used to prevent attempts to replace, remove, or alter hardware
elements or modules used to implement HDCP functions?
19. In the Licensed Product, does the removal or replacement of hardware elements or
modules that would compromise the content protection requirements of the HDCP Specification
and the Compliance Rules damage the Licensed Product so as to render the Licensed Product
unable to receive, decrypt, or decode HDCP Content?

Notice: This checklist does not supersede or supplant the HDCP Specification, Compliance
Rules, or Robustness Rules. Adopter and its Test Engineers are advised that this checklist does
not address all requirements of the Robustness rules, or the requirements of the HDCP
Specification and Compliance Rules

Jan 23, 2008 12:14 PM in response to spooky tooth

Your information on HDCP only set down the rules for those that choose HDCP to protect their content. It does not talking anything about HDMI devices having to have HDCP implemented. I was just wondering if anyone out their has a older DVI TV that does not support HDCP, can they watch all the AppleTV content through the HDMI port.

Feb 2, 2008 5:43 PM in response to Bobbbo

Hi there,

while I don't know whether the new Apple TV will have HDCP always turned on, there are a few things that I do know:

1) Apple TV is capable of using HDCP via its HDMI port (ok, you guessed that already)
2) If you connect your Apple TV via HDMI, Apple says (on http://www.apple.com/appletv/specs.html): "(7) Requires HDMI with HDCP or component video."
3) Apple's iTunes Store Terms of Service ( http://www.apple.com/legal/itunes/us/service.html) state:
"(xv) HDMI. An HDCP connection is required in order to view movies (purchased or rented) and TV shows transmitted over HDMI"

My interpretation: If you use your Apple TV for watching movies or TV shows, and you use the HDMI port, HDCP will necessarily be enabled. You might be lucky in that some things (like Apple TV's menus, viewing photos or the like) might work without HDCP, but don't count on it. It's much easier (implementation-wise) to just switch on HDCP all the time, without programming special rules for special kinds of content into the Apple TV.

And, even if some things were to work today without HDCP - well, if Apple states "requires HDMI with HDCP ... " on their tech specs page, there's no reason for them not to generally switch off HDCP-less operation (should it exist right now) at some random point in future via software update. (The "told-you-so" principle.)

So, before shelling out some 200-plus bucks for the Apple TV, better make sure your TV is capable of HDCP, or at least has analogue component connectors (YPrPb). (Nobody knows right now, by the way, whether all content will be offered via the YPrPb connectors, or whether there is - or will be - content which will only be made available in content-protected form via the HDMI port.)

HDCP is big on Apple's agenda, I should guess, with MacBook Air coming with HDCP chips on its mainboard (as at least one disassembly site suggests). This can only mean that more and more Apple hardware will be made HDCP-capable, meaning, in turn, that support for HDCP-less playback of high-quality media will, at least on the longer run, slowly disappear.

My $0.02, anyway. G'night.

Is HDMI Output have HDCP on all the time?

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