Q: Dual Quad-core Mac Pro reboots from sleep

My machine is still waking properly (it's been about 3 mornings since I zapped the PRAM & SMC)... BUT -- now I'm getting weird graphics artifacts showing up, I presume because of the 10.5.2 graphics update. Certain OS-level graphics like the glowing blue "OK" button are flickering on and off. The spotlight results menu is doing it too. Has anyone else had this occur? BTW, it's the stock ATI 2600 card, and I had zero graphics problems until I did the 10.5.2 update and reset the PRAM & SMC.

Mac Pro Quad 2.8 8800GT 2GB stock mem

Mac OS: reboots from sleep ( when using mouse or keyboard for wake up call - using power button no reboot )

Vista: no reboot from sleep

My previous G5 had this sleeping issue ever since ( restarts, stuck with high spinning fans )- so nothing new here. But it was great machine - without sleeping .

Message was edited by: Jens Habermann

I can confirm that with 10.5.2 and the Leopard graphics update that the problem *has NOT* been solved. I still get reboots after waking from sleep. However, I still need to see if waking-up the Mac Pro with the power button, instead of the mouse or keyboard, makes any difference.

MacGurus advises all customers to never let Mac machines sleep. They say sleep mode will shorten the life of all hard drives. They say hard drives are built to last longer when left on, spinning, and maintaining a constant temperature. Same with the Burlys. Not an easy pill for us users who have to sleep in the same room as our computers.

Some say the electrical surges that occur coming out of sleep mode actually reflect higher costs on the electric bill. I have heard it is less expensive to leave the MacPro on 24/7, unless you take a trip or need to upgrade and/or do maintenance.

Macs have always had sleep issues in one way or another, although this thread seems to illustrate the most frustrating of all. The G4 MDD I am about to retire started to have unusual sleep issues after I upgraded to Tiger. Or maybe it was the installation of Virus Barrier. (Who knows? I've stopped looking for perfection and answers to computer mysteries long ago.) For the first time in all my years of ownership, I would get blank screens (dual screen setup) when nudged out of sleep mode. I had to force a shut down and turn the machine back on in order to fix the issue. It doesn't happen often but it has happened more than four times in the last six months. Also, if certain programs are open, the G4 will not got to sleep. I never have figured out what programs those are and I haven't stopped using sleep mode. The G4 is the loudest computer I've ever experienced.

I'm grateful I found this thread. I mentioned on another that my new MacPro is soon to arrive. Given MacGurus advice, I had already decided I might not rely on sleep mode any longer, depending how quiet the MacPro actually is. IMO, sleep mode is not a serious enough issue to disrupt workflow and income, although it raises flags of concern when Apple doesn't address these issues immediately. We must raise **** and keep the pressure on.

wesmarsh wrote:
Some say the electrical surges that occur coming out of sleep mode actually reflect higher costs on the electric bill. I have heard it is less expensive to leave the MacPro on 24/7, unless you take a trip or need to upgrade and/or do maintenance.

That may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read. Consider that a Hard Drive requires a MAXIMUM of 15 Watts of power (even when spinning up) which is pretty darn close to that of a sleeping Mac (my UPS says the Mac Pro draws about 10 Watts of power when sleeping).

Now just imagine how much more power you waste (another 250W) when you leave the system on 24/7.

In other words, it is more cost efficient to have the computer sleep if you are going to walk away for 20 seconds than leave the computer on.

wesmarsh wrote:
Macs have always had sleep issues in one way or another, although this thread seems to illustrate the most frustrating of all. The G4 MDD I am about to retire started to have unusual sleep issues after I upgraded to Tiger. Or maybe it was the installation of Virus Barrier. (Who knows? I've stopped looking for perfection and answers to computer mysteries long ago.) For the first time in all my years of ownership, I would get blank screens (dual screen setup) when nudged out of sleep mode. I had to force a shut down and turn the machine back on in order to fix the issue. It doesn't happen often but it has happened more than four times in the last six months. Also, if certain programs are open, the G4 will not got to sleep. I never have figured out what programs those are and I haven't stopped using sleep mode. The G4 is the loudest computer I've ever experienced.

Again, this is just silly. I have slept ALL of my Macs (including my MBA) or any unless I had to do a system update and it required a reboot. Never had any problems before this issue with the Mac Pro.

My Mac Pro gets shutdown at night with UPS off. During the day it is left up. Desktop drives have 50,000, or about 10 yrs? start/stop cycles. Enterprise drives and servers (and your Burly) are meant for 24/7 use. I doubt they said "to save on power" as part of their advice.

With large arrays, vendors have incorporated staggered spin-up so you don't draw hundreds of watts at once. Many drives have 20-25W on startup. I know I was surprised just how heft a 750GB drive is, feels like a SCSI drive use to.

My Mac Pro is low-end pretty much with just 4 drives, 2GHz and 6GB RAM plus 4 PCI cards. Even FBDIMMs not only run hot, they draw 10W draws 350-400W during normal use. And acts like a little space heater.

However, this issue with reboot from sleep is new. It 'sound' like the old issue with inrush current on wake from sleep, or the circuit and UPS 1500VA, has not eliminated the problems thus far.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current

The Mac Pro 2008 BTU
http://www.barefeats.com/harper4.html

Two band-aides: nvram gets corrupt on its own and zapping pram/nvram (can't do the old Open Firmware reset anymore which was always more efficient), Apple removed the SMC Reset button, so no physical way to do that either, which is... interesting (related?). Resetting SMC helps, but again, only temporarily. Which leads me to believe an SMC firmware update might be the only fix, or it is embedded in EFI firmware, which was updated on the 2008 to a newer 2.0 version, I think.

The problems don't occur when running Vista x64. Vista hibernate mode (works a few times and then fails) seems to fail across the board on many systems, not an isolated issue. Sleep over night is usually safe. H

Firmware updates are always difficult to test, create, and deploy. Whether disk drives, controllers, and especially systems. The last SMC firmware update had everyone complaining about the fans kicking in on wake from sleep. The EFI firmware update came out about the same time, and added 30 seconds between the time the OPTION key boot manager and selected Windows began loading - and that was to insure better Windows compatibility (whatever it was it did).

Same with disk drives, memory, most any hardware chips or firmware, they are always being revised, once they know and see a pattern and its cause. WD had a problem with their RE line of drives in RAID and between the time reported and firmware update fix, about 4 months.

izibo wrote:That may be the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.

I thought it was ridiculous, too. Those pro-24/7 folks say the most questionable things.

The hatter wrote: I doubt they said "to save on power" as part of their advice.

MacGurus is not the source that said one would "save on power" but, in support of "on" 24/7, they said the power usage on a MacPro is "surprisingly insignificant in costs." I'm sure anyone can contact them for their opinion of pro-24/7.

I started as a PC user in the 90's and switched to Mac in 2000. I'm always surprised by the things different techies say about the equipment they love.

How is this "answered"? I am still having this problem, and if someone gives me a solution that will WORK I will be happy about it, but until then the problem is not "answered."

Message was edited by: michael.h21

Leave the computer on 24/7 may be an option in the US, but in the real world energy is expensive.
Aside, this solution is like covering you eyes and not to see the problem. Like saying, oh, your car stalls at slow motion? No problem, just don't stop in the red lights...

The hatter wrote:

The problems don't occur when running Vista x64. Vista hibernate mode (works a few times and then fails) seems to fail across the board on many systems, not an isolated issue. Sleep over night is usually safe. H

Could you clarify this a bit? Are you saying that the Mac Pro when running Vista 64 fails when hibernating in a manner similar to the Mac OS X "wake from sleep" reboot, or that it DOESN'T fail when running Vista 64 natively?

The single major reason I've not sent my box back for refund is that reports in this message thread state the 2008 Mac Pro doesn't display this problem when running as a Windows box, implying that it's a software issue.

The two reasons I've not sent it in for "repairs" are:
1. there's not likely a hardware repair for a software problem and
2. there's no official acknowledgement from Apple that they have any clue what the problem really is.

Trinity wrote:
Leave the computer on 24/7 may be an option in the US, but in the real world energy is expensive.
Aside, this solution is like covering you eyes and not to see the problem. Like saying, oh, your car stalls at slow motion? No problem, just don't stop in the red lights...

Sorry, but I think that's a bit hyperbolic. Most of us saying "don't sleep" the box are still sleeping the displays and spinning down the drives, which dramatically curtails power use. We're not saying there's no problem. However, the data loss from an unexpected reboot could produce a far greater expense than allowing the computer to continue drawing a small amount of current while we're not using it. Actually, it does so even when powered off. The only way to make it consume NO power is to unplug it.

I agree. I have a Mac Pro (Early 2008) 2.8 GHz which I purchased form the local Apple Store in mid-January. It has exhibited the reboot from sleep problem since the moment I brought it home from the Apple Store. I have tried every single solution suggested on this Forum (including numerous resets of the SMC and PRAM) and none have helped the situation at all. Occasionally when it is asleep and I press a key on the keyboard, my Mac Pro will neither wake up or do anything -- just sits there with the power lamp burning steadily. I then have to push and hold the power button to reboot the machine. In all other respects, this Mac Pro performs superbly, and it has never failed to boot after a waking from sleep episode. Even the folks at my local Apple Store acknowledge the problem but have no idea what to do about it. I have not returned the Mac Pro because those who have done so and gotten another one have encountered the same problem after a few days of using their Mac Pro.

Apple had some problems with the aluminum iMacs and finally acknowledged them and corrected them after about 3 months. I would hope they will do the same with the Mac Pro and not take three months to do it. This is not acceptable behavior in their flagship computer.

Tom

Trinity wrote:
Leave the computer on 24/7 may be an option in the US, but in the real world energy is expensive.
this solution is like covering you eyes and not to see the problem.

Everything is expensive in the real world. Every businessman who relies on computers has to make choices and ask, "What expense protects?"

Nobody should cover eyes and pretend a problem doesn't exist. However, the way you deal with the problem may affect your business workflow. Think first, act second.

I meant to add that pro-24/7 users claim the benefits of Apple's 3 AM Background Maintenance are worth the minimal extra electricity expense. They argue that user's who shut down at night are subject to more negative issues, especially if they don't keep up with maintenance on their own.

I have the same problem here. It started yesterday, after I set up this Mac Pro and had it running for 3 days. I have no tried resetting PRAM or anything, but I went ahead and disabled sleep and will watch this until better fixes are determined or Apple releases a fix.

I never leave mine up, never bother to run any maintenance, but I do restore or move the system drive around a lot, and no adverse side effects. Seems almost "silly" just to run a script that can be run with one command or run when the Mac is idle on next startup.

We 'paid' for a new mainframe just from the lower electric bills for keeping it powered and running cooler and not needing more A/C or floor space (they kept getting bigger, water cooled, higher floor boards and such).

Intel wants to move past hungry watts and heat of today's DDR2 FBDIMM to DDR3 to reduce the power and heat of today's memory chip (and still boost MHz). Physical virtualization of servers to run more than one OS concurrently and not let them sit or only run at 35%.