Level 1

11 points

Unresponsive Keyboard and Trackpad problem FIXED/RESOLVED

I've been dealing with this issue since early December myself.
I purchased the MBP in November and had nearly a month with out any issues.

I spent nearly two hours on the phone with Apple Care via a specialist trying to diagnose the problem yesterday.
He did mention that they believe neither the 10.5.1 update or the MBP 1.1 update were to blame for occurrence of this issue. (I remain slightly skeptical)

Let me give you a short rundown of my problems and what I've done to help resolve the issue. Hopefully it'll help some of you.. or help me (with some of everyone else insight) if it happens again.

The symptoms:
keyboard and trackpad become unresponsive.
The problem is intermittent but often is completely unresponsive at start up.
USB mouse and keyboards have full functionality.

Kernel panics often occur as well. Usually this occurs just after the keyboard and track pad experience extreme intermittent "on and off" periods.
The only option is to do a hard-restart which my or may not resolve the unresponsiveness.

Things I've addressed in my particular case:

1. The battery recall issue - my battery (6N745288YFTA) is OK.
2. Resetting the PMU - no change.
3. Re-installing both the 10.5.1 and MBP 1.1 updates - no effect.
4. pressing the Function + S key at start up and running /sbin/fsck -fy The HD is said to be OK
5. I just finished an Archive and reinstall of Leopard = this seems to have fixed the issue for the moment. I have not run the Updater to bring the OS back to it's fully updated form yet.

The Archive and Re-install DID NOT WORK.
Even upon downloading and installing the 10.5.1 and 1.1 update, I'm still back at square one.

I've also been experiencing these phantom keystrokes to the eject key and backlight myself lately.

I've resolved to wait for the 10.5.2 official release to see of that helps... If not then I'll break down and send my machine in for service.

_____________________________________
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP31.0070.B05
SMC Version: 1.16f10
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled

THE SOLUTION:

This is a HARDWARE problem!

After playing around with removing the battery and noticing that this often returned functionality to the keyboard I surmised that this had some sort of physical aspect.
Sure enough, there is a section of copper colored tape/wiring exposed in the batter slot that is slightly bowed where it's smallest.
When I depressed this with my finger tip on this portion to basically flatten it out flush against the housing; I found that all functionality was restored!

You can see the portion in the picture below.

I haven’t had any problems AT ALL since I took a piece of napkin and taped it down to sustain pressure on this portion of bowed tape/wiring.

I have yet to call AppleCare to see what they suggest I do.
I will post a reply here when I hear their suggestion.

Mac Book Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB 667 MHz SDRAM

Posted on Jan 27, 2008 3:18 PM

382 replies

May 21, 2008 11:43 AM in response to Steve Eugene

i went in to get my machine checked out. because i was getting the first key to some times not register.

the tech checked it out and told me the bulge was not an issue and checked some settings. there is a delay setting under universal access that is there to keep clumsy people from hitting a hey as they put there hands on the KB basically. and for some reason it was turned on in my settings. the tech reset that and it seems to be perfectly fine now

-matt

Steve Eugene Author

Level 1

11 points

May 21, 2008 12:47 PM in response to mattathayde

Matt,

Looks like you were having a different issue for sure.
...it has been addressed in other threads which I'm too lazy to link you to.

Regardless, thanks for the info (4 identical posts = little excessive)
Glad you got your machine working again.

May 26, 2008 12:51 AM in response to Steve Eugene

So my MBP has just developed this problem but it is quickly becoming a real issue fr me. I have tried the tape and napkin fix and it has actually not even helped (unless I'm doing something wrong with the placement). I called Apple but unfortunatly my phone support has run out and I find myself here on the forums. I really want and need this problem fixed but since I ALSO have yet to purchase Apple Care, and the $300 price is not making it look appealing. So here is my question, can anyone post a picture of what their "tape and napkin" fix looks like, every time I try to place it I end up with the keypad dying as I type my password in to get to my home OS. The other thing is would I have to have Apple care to send it in and get it looked at professionally? If anyone could help me it would be greatly appreciated!

E_S_D

Level 1

0 points

May 26, 2008 5:45 AM in response to Ikari Hazaku

Yeah,

I agree with the last post.
First of all, this is clearly a problem that many people have encountered or are experiencing. My own MacBook Pro developed the problem a couple of weeks ago. I found this thread, tried pressing on that particular area, and indeed it revealed that my machine was suffering from the same issue as most people here - hardware, not software.

However, it is difficult to see what the pressure is actually doing. It doesn't seem like there's any need for there to be physical contact between the chassis/casing and the orange strip, the latter being plastic shielding.
There appears to be a plug/socket at the end of the strip, below the transparent oblong: does pressing on the orange strip allow for better contact between the plug and the socket?

Before using tape and napkins, it would be really helpful to understand what the pressure is achieving from a mechanical/electronic point of view.

In any case, well done for hunting this down!

In the long run, it still looks like a case of taking the machines back to Apple... Very annoying.

May 26, 2008 8:09 AM in response to Ikari Hazaku

well i will say this for apple care. over 4 years i have had few issues with my machines but when i had them, without applecare i would have been SOL. HD corruption, logic board issue (after 3-4 weeks i was able to get a new machine due to the fact it was going to take a few more weeks to get it done since the machine was a late model). newer machine i have now had to get my super drive replaced and battery issue.

price i paid for all this 700 for the 2 apple care plans, price i would have paid 800-1000 plus the calls to apple that i would have been charged probably another few hundred.

apple care is worth it and personally i wont buy an apple product with out also buying the apple care with it.

for this issue if you let it go past your standard warranty date you will be paying that much just to get this fixed. (also remember apple care must be purchased before your 1 year standard warranty is out)
-matt

JustTed

Level 1

25 points

May 26, 2008 8:35 AM in response to mattathayde

With all due respect regarding AppleCare, for every story like this, there are multiple stories of people who have had several Apple laptops with no issues whatsoever. AppleCare is just an insurance policy - a bet on the company's part that there will be no problems, and one on your part that there will be. In Consumer Reports, they listed the repair rate of Apple laptops at 23% for a four year period between 2003-2007, which means that 77% of people did not require a repair. Also, if you read books like "Punching In" by Alex Frankel, you'll see that AppleCare is part of the Apple business model for generating revenue. Nothing wrong with that at all, that's how insurance companies stay in business, just wanted to add balance to the conversation. Everyone has a different level of risk tolerance, if yours is low, get it, but you are not guaranteed to lose out if you don't get AppleCare.

With regard to the trackpad problem - I scotch taped part of an index card over the ribbon cable, as pictured at the top of this discussion, and it worked. I'd take a picture of it, but I don't want to jinx the fix. It seems that keeping the ribbon flat (and not kinked, which maybe comes from battery heat?) keeps the trackpad and keyboard working. This would also explain pressing on the top, because it would flatten out the same area. I would guess that's not as good a long term strategy because it will put the ribbon cable in closer contact to a hot battery and therefore make the problem worse.

I hope this helps someone/anyone out there, like I was helped by this discussion. I give credit to Apple for supporting openness and transparency, which saves customers and the company time.

May 26, 2008 8:48 AM in response to JustTed

very good point, i am a very heavy duty everyday user of my machine so it gets a lot of miles on it in a short period so for me if is a very good option.

in regard to what the pressure is achieving (this is all a guess but it is logical) some how the connection is flawed, probably the the bowed piece or maybe at the connection farther in. the pressure is for some reason straightening out the connection and causing it to function correctly. kind of like when you have a set of head phones and they start to go out but if you hold the wire a certain way it works fine, same issue/idea

-matt

fjp999

Level 2

181 points

May 26, 2008 9:19 AM in response to Ikari Hazaku

Dont forget that you can find AppleCare at a discount from some retailers.

I purchased AC for my iPod Touch at a pretty good discount and it went thru at Apple with NO problem.

I think Amazon has it but do a google search. If you cant find it I can find the place where I got mine.

good luck.

miradu

Level 1

0 points

May 26, 2008 11:20 AM in response to Steve Eugene

Thank you so much!

My Macbook Pro has been loosing keyboard /mouse every once in a while for a few weeks, spewing usb failed to enumerate errors in the usb log. Then, after flying, last week it broke entirely. I was at loss on what to do. Buying a usb keyboard mouse, and then looking through the kernal showed to me that it was a problem with the HID device. Great. Now what do I do.

I waited. But I have an important meeting in Europe next week, and I needed my out of warranty laptop fixed. And then you came in.

Your solution has worked perfectly. I added a bit of tape, put the battery back in, and it applied just enough pressure to keep it working.

Ribbon cables are supposed to be flexible, so I'm a bit at a loss on why this solution works - perhaps it's slightly out of the socket. I really really appreciate the solution though!

Thanks!

Jun 4, 2008 9:29 PM in response to Steve Eugene

Wow.. This is soooo strange.. I had the same problem and now it works perfectly.. Does each MBP have that issue? I am going to the mac store to see what they say. Just got this couple of weeks ago.
Thanx for the post. Fixed my problems.

Jun 12, 2008 7:31 AM in response to E_S_D

I agree. I've gotten a ticket to go see an apple technician. However, since I'm out of warranty I might have to pay for everything myself (and a new top case isn't cheap). I even have to pay for just the evaluation (which is over $100 here in Sweden), and Apple will only refund it if the technicians find it being a manufacturing error and not due to trauma/damage. However, at this point all we know is that for some reason the cable and/or the connector isn't working properly. We're not sure if the cables inside the flat are damaged from the creasing/heat, or if it's the socket it goes into and so on. Also, is it due to heat, improper battery placement, has it got anything to do with whether or not you've switched RAM (the connector goes through to the same part of the Mac as the RAM-slot is) and so on. It's great that we've found a fix, but I'd love to hear if anyone has gotten anything more out of their Apple technicians as to what was the faulty part.

Or does changing the top-case mean that the cables themselves are fine? There were two items replaced for those of you who got replacements, right? What was the other one?

Great post, and I'm relieved, but I still want to know more. As a student in summer, I don't want to be facing a $300 repair bill.

SAGO

Level 1

0 points

Jun 15, 2008 10:12 AM in response to Steve Eugene

the solution didn't work for me. It did for a while when pressing the cable..but once the machine is on for a while, it will stop responding. Up to the point when even if i press the cable, it won't work.

Have send in for repair. Let's see what happens.

Jun 17, 2008 7:05 AM in response to SAGO

When I first experienced the dead keyboard/trackpad problem I found this thread and used the "piece of paper" workaround. It worked for a few weeks but the problem did come back.
Dropped the machine off at a local Apple auth. Service Partner and got it back in 26 hours (driving included). According to the receipt they replaced the TOP CASE ASSY. Unlike Steve Eugene's case, my invoice does not list the ASSY,KEYBOARD.

-tb

Jun 23, 2008 2:15 PM in response to Steve Eugene

I have a MacBook, not a Pro and have the same problem with the keyboard and trackpad locking but it seems to be caused by using usb-serial cables. I have one usb-serial that was connected to a DataGrid GPS and caused a lock up (when switching desktops) and one usb to garmin gps serial cable that caused a lock up twice (once when switching desktops). The desktop switching might just be coincidence or a trigger for something that was going to happen anyway. This seems to have nothing to do with the battery but more to do with the way serial ports are handled.
I have no bluetooth mouse to check with but the Apple infrared remote for Front Row worked whilst the trackpad and keyboard were locked.

Jun 26, 2008 8:19 PM in response to mercergeo

I have had recent problems with first not having the macbook pro boot up to show login window access. It would stay spinning with the grey gear. I then resorted to fresh install of the os. Now my internal keyboard and trackpad did not install during this process. How do I get it to install properly? The Genius Bar Guy booted leopard from an external drive with Macbook pro and it didnot detect the internal keyboard or trackpad. They quoted me $471.00 CAD! that's almost half the price of my MBP. I can see there is a long list of internal keyboard and trackpad issues popping up after leopard updates of 10.5.3 and firmware updates. Something is not right , but Apple is not coming up and saying this is a product and software flaw either. Something is really rotten in Denmark.

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Unresponsive Keyboard and Trackpad problem FIXED/RESOLVED