Level 1

11 points

Unresponsive Keyboard and Trackpad problem FIXED/RESOLVED

I've been dealing with this issue since early December myself.
I purchased the MBP in November and had nearly a month with out any issues.

I spent nearly two hours on the phone with Apple Care via a specialist trying to diagnose the problem yesterday.
He did mention that they believe neither the 10.5.1 update or the MBP 1.1 update were to blame for occurrence of this issue. (I remain slightly skeptical)

Let me give you a short rundown of my problems and what I've done to help resolve the issue. Hopefully it'll help some of you.. or help me (with some of everyone else insight) if it happens again.

The symptoms:
keyboard and trackpad become unresponsive.
The problem is intermittent but often is completely unresponsive at start up.
USB mouse and keyboards have full functionality.

Kernel panics often occur as well. Usually this occurs just after the keyboard and track pad experience extreme intermittent "on and off" periods.
The only option is to do a hard-restart which my or may not resolve the unresponsiveness.

Things I've addressed in my particular case:

1. The battery recall issue - my battery (6N745288YFTA) is OK.
2. Resetting the PMU - no change.
3. Re-installing both the 10.5.1 and MBP 1.1 updates - no effect.
4. pressing the Function + S key at start up and running /sbin/fsck -fy The HD is said to be OK
5. I just finished an Archive and reinstall of Leopard = this seems to have fixed the issue for the moment. I have not run the Updater to bring the OS back to it's fully updated form yet.

The Archive and Re-install DID NOT WORK.
Even upon downloading and installing the 10.5.1 and 1.1 update, I'm still back at square one.

I've also been experiencing these phantom keystrokes to the eject key and backlight myself lately.

I've resolved to wait for the 10.5.2 official release to see of that helps... If not then I'll break down and send my machine in for service.

_____________________________________
Model Name: MacBook Pro
Model Identifier: MacBookPro3,1
Processor Name: Intel Core 2 Duo
Processor Speed: 2.4 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 2
L2 Cache: 4 MB
Memory: 2 GB
Bus Speed: 800 MHz
Boot ROM Version: MBP31.0070.B05
SMC Version: 1.16f10
Sudden Motion Sensor:
State: Enabled

THE SOLUTION:

This is a HARDWARE problem!

After playing around with removing the battery and noticing that this often returned functionality to the keyboard I surmised that this had some sort of physical aspect.
Sure enough, there is a section of copper colored tape/wiring exposed in the batter slot that is slightly bowed where it's smallest.
When I depressed this with my finger tip on this portion to basically flatten it out flush against the housing; I found that all functionality was restored!

You can see the portion in the picture below.

I haven’t had any problems AT ALL since I took a piece of napkin and taped it down to sustain pressure on this portion of bowed tape/wiring.

I have yet to call AppleCare to see what they suggest I do.
I will post a reply here when I hear their suggestion.

Mac Book Pro, Mac OS X (10.5.1), 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB 667 MHz SDRAM

Posted on Jan 27, 2008 3:18 PM

382 replies

Jan 26, 2009 11:43 AM in response to R Paladino

Just adding my 2 cents to the discussion. I've had the 'problem' for a little over a month and have seen it apparently escalate - e.g., for a while windows was fine when leopard was having a problem, then it reached a point where windows was not fine and AHT reported an error.

No console error logs though. Began after an update to 10.5 but reading through the thousands of posts I'm assuming that it really is a hardware issue about the top case+trackpad / keyboard battery cable, perhaps BootCamp was initially more resilient and error-correcting when the cable started faulting.

The SMU reset does seem to clear it for a little while, though it takes a few tries sometimes. It doesn't seem to last too long, though.

From totally dead, it take me about 5 tries to get a folded piece of paper with another pressure to where I could get the internal keyboard and trackpad working.

Financially, if like me, your AppleCare just ran out, you might be asking yourself do I spend $370 for the 3 year renewal vs. about the same for a new top case and keyboard
http://www.powerbookmedic.com/xcart1/product.php?productid=16975&cat=0&page=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vc7RLbKhnjc
(your answer likely depends on if you can bear to part with your machine and your level of DIY confidence and access to torx screwdrivers)

This replacement seems like the logical next step if you believe that the rolled up paper trick is not going to work forever. Maybe what we need is a poll of how many people have done the replacement and the figures on how many have seen the problem go away entirely vs. reappear at some point?

Level 1

0 points

Feb 16, 2009 12:17 AM in response to Steve Eugene

Unfortunately my warranty ran out before I could buy AppleCare, so I was SOL until I stumbled upon this thread. I applied direct pressure with my fingernail and my keyboard/trackpad started working again. When I added a piece of paper underneath the cable and applied pressure, nothing happened. When I removed it and applied pressure, it worked. For some reason, the ribbon cable has to be in contact with the inner casing. Perhaps it's a grounding issue.

Feb 19, 2009 11:16 AM in response to v0

I agree with the fellow above who suggested that this should be a recall issue. My keyboard is dead, although I'm not sure when it failed because I generally use an external USB keyboard and mouse... so I was actually a little surprised when I discovered the keyboard doesn't work. The trackpad still works. There was also one incident where I pressed a key on the internal keyboard and it initiated an endless loop of carriage returns that I couldn't stop. You can imagine the havoc that created. I rebooted, and the CRs were no longer there, suggesting some sort of OS glitch? If Apple has the presence of mind to issue a recall on this problem I'll probably consider buying another Mac when it's time to replace my computer, but if not I'll probably replace it with "the other option." Macs cost about three times as much as the other option, so these kinds of problems are a significant disincentive to make the same mistake twice.

What Apple has going for it is the fact that there's one manufacturing standard, so that ought to contribute to the economies of aftermarket repairs (after warranty expiration). And there is a fairly concentrated aftermarket in parts and repairs. Given the number of separate manufacturers of the alternative, that situation is less likely for Windows machines... at least for laptops. The desktop design is fairly standardized, though... and there's also a long tradition of homebuilders.

Anyway, Apple has a nice little product line so I hope they deal with customers in a way that doesn't undermine their long term business. And kudos to the fellow who started this thread. It seems to have helped a lot of people.

Feb 19, 2009 12:19 PM in response to Scott Talkington

I suppose I should report on the results of trying this fix on my 2006 era MacBook. I placed a bandaid (literally) over the section of ribbon cable that I could see in the battery compartment, although I didn't know whether that was the correct cable or not. It didn't seem to have any effect on the functioning of the keyboard. However, after I started randomly punching the keys again I duplicated the infinite Carriage Return loop problem, but noticed that there was also a "y" showing just below the carriage returns. So I pressed the "y" key a second time, and not only did the CR loop stop, but the keyboard came back! From what I recall the keyboard connector cable is just at the intersect of the G, H, and Y keys... so this suggests that the problem is the cable connection. Either that, or it's a cable problem. I've had keyboards where the internal cable connector went bad, and replacing the connector piece resolved the problem. Actually this was on the Kinesis keyboard that I'm currently using. The fix was provided at no cost by the Kinesis company, so they were aware of the problem and dealt with it immediately by mailing me the part.

Feb 19, 2009 9:33 PM in response to Steve Eugene

I was too quick when I presumed that my keyboard problem was fixed. The "H" key now registers as some alternate character, and a number of other keys don't work at all. Basically all the letter keys work, except for the H, but most of the other keys (including the number keys) don't. I have a MacBook rather than a MacBook Pro, so I'm not sure I applied the "fix" correctly. There's only a small portion of the ribbon showing in the battery case, near the edge, so there's not much area to cover.

I've read through this entire thread, and the keyboard problem is so common, and the various fixes so unreliable, that I'm really hesitant to purchase a new top case to repair a machine that would apparently remain subject to the same sort of failure. I'm not even entirely convinced that this is a hardware problem, or at least that it's a hardware problem alone. Unless Apple comes through with a reasonable response to this rather extensive problem, this will be the last Apple product I purchase. When my rather expensive Kinesis keyboard had problems Kinesis supplied a fix at no cost, and with minimum hassle. It's still working. The comparison doesn't flatter Apple, although of course a keyboard is a much simpler product than a laptop computer.

Feb 19, 2009 11:25 PM in response to Steve Eugene

Thanks, this worked!

For those who can't get this to work, try fiddling with it a bit. My keyboard didn't start working until after putting a small, 1mm thick piece of plastic against the loose wiring, held on with masking tape.

My guess is the battery locks into place, and the 1mm plastic causes tension between the battery and wiring, causing the wire to flatten out, thus pushing the wire back into the connection, similar to a crappy set of headphones (someone mentioned this earlier).

How long will this work? Hopefully we don't have to think about it again. Has anyone had any more issues?

Seems most likely due to the intense heat from the battery that many have complained about.

Feb 20, 2009 9:29 AM in response to Randawg1984

Randawg1984 wrote:
Seems most likely due to the intense heat from the battery that many have complained about.

I'm not quite clear why a battery that's just receiving a trickle charge would be hot. Something's wrong here.

And as I indicated above the "shim fix" didn't really work on my machine. I got a few keys back, but the keyboard is still essentially unusable. I'm not inclined to replace the keyboard until Apple signals that they're aware of the problem and have engineered a solution that actually deals with it.

Baughn

Level 1

10 points

Feb 21, 2009 11:51 AM in response to Steve Eugene

I've got a Q3-2008 macbook pro (good timing there, as I consider the update to be rather lousy), which exhibits this problem. I'm also running linux on it, giving me some extra options. Let's see...

I've applied the band-aid (literally, yep); I don't know yet if it'll help.

I do have an idea of why it would, if the grounding wire is actually exposed on the underside of the wiring: Linux' error message is "hub 7-0:1.0: port 2 disabled by hub (EMI?), re-enabling..." - as you can see, it's complaining about electro-magnetic interference, eg. insufficient shielding/grounding.

Then again, it might just be a flaky connection.

Baughn

Level 1

10 points

Feb 21, 2009 1:46 PM in response to Baughn

Yep, looks like just a flaky connection.

After peeling off the glued-on plastic cover, then reseating the cable, it's been working perfectly. No need for any repairs here, I guess.

Pressing on the cable would produce tension against the contacts, which'd serve to mask the bad seating, but it's really easy to fix properly.

n@te

Level 1

0 points

Feb 22, 2009 12:41 PM in response to Steve Eugene

Seriously, you are the best! Sinds a month or two I had the same problem.. called with the Apple Center NL, go to the store I bought my MacBook Pro.. no one get a sullotion, but now.. it al fixed!
Thanks! Really, realy thank you!

Regards,
Nathan

nbx909

Level 1

0 points

Feb 28, 2009 12:14 AM in response to Steve Eugene

I have the same problem with the keyboard and track pad being non responsive if I hit the right spot on the cable it will work however I can't get the paper in there good enough to hold it down. Any suggestions?

mistical

Level 1

0 points

Feb 28, 2009 4:09 AM in response to nbx909

@nbx909, the only thing you or anyone else can do is take it into Apple and have them replace the top case. THIS WILL fix your problem but it is NOT a definite fixing. MEANING that this may once again come back but it also may not.

So my suggestion to you and anyone that takes it in is to take care of it once you get this done. Be careful with your trackpad, pressure, etc. Take care of it.

When you take it in, tell them the same problem you just said and need a new top case. The Apple Genius should definitely know what you are talking about. I just had mine replaced a week ago today and so far, so good. Working great. If it happens again, take it back to them again (sadly).

There is nothing else that will fix the problem. Putting anything in between the ribbon and battery will not work, tape, plastic, nothing. It may seem like a temporary solution but it is not.

nbx909

Level 1

0 points

Feb 28, 2009 12:12 PM in response to mistical

I called Apple again and the representative opened up a case regarding this problem for me and I gave him the link to this thread. He stated that if they eventually did recall and I went ahead and paid for the repairs now, if I could produce a receipt and the case # they gave me they would refund me. So if you are waiting for a recall (which I bet will happen since this is happening so much), go ahead and tell them that you have the problem that this thread describes and get a case # then go get it repaired and save your receipt. ***** that you have to pay upfront but if you are out of warranty it's the best thing to do to make sure it stays fixed, the tape/paper fix is a nice temporary fix though.

mistical

Level 1

0 points

Mar 16, 2009 8:33 AM in response to nbx909

@nbx9092 My suggestion to you is to take very, very good care of your trackpad. The problem lies underneath the trackpad. So be gentle with it, do not apply too much pressure to this area or get rough ever. Doing this, I can not guarantee you will not have the problem again but you may be fine with this solution.

Other than that, you would have to take in the laptop again to have a new top-case replaced. All that is necessary is a new top-case but they would probably give you a new keyboard too.

Mar 23, 2009 4:58 AM in response to Steve Eugene

It worked for me also.
However since it was still in warranty I thought this was a bit shabby so I took it into the Genius bar and asked them. Whilst I was there I showed them this thread which they duly noted but said was a bit ridiculous.
They said it needed a new drive and a new logic board (sound familiar?) which they duly replaced and sure enough when I got my machine back it was working perfectly.
Just for the **** of it I just popped out the battery to take a look if they'd done anything there.
No they hadn't; the piece of kitchen roll and tape was still safely in place!

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Unresponsive Keyboard and Trackpad problem FIXED/RESOLVED