Mac LC startup beeps

Let's get back to the real goal which is to get data off the old drive and not necessarily to get the LCII working. Do you have a friend with a G3 or some intermediate generation computer which will read a SCSI drive but also have the capability to transfer the data to something your new computer can read? Back where I used to work people not infrequently came to me with my G3 to get data off floppies which I could put onto a CD or stick drive.

Are you attempting a startup from the internal hard drive or from a disk tools floppy?

No Happy Mac and no Welcome to Macintosh, I presume.

Do you hear the hard disk spinning?

No idea about the beeps in this case. Should not have anything to do with control panels et cetera, since these load later. Generally speaking, however, strange sounds can appear when various circuits do not receive a normal voltage. It cannot be ruled out, for example, (and I am guessing here) that a number of capacitors need some time to charge properly after having been "empty" for a longer period.

A good start could be to try to reset the PRAM. Also, as Limnos indicated, check the internal 3.6 V battery (should be at least approx. 3.3 V).

Jan

[This article|http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=18127] mentions LC III beeps, but it seems to be more an energy saver thing than something at startup.

My usual thought when seeing somebody starting an old computer is your PRAM battery may be dead. Typically that can cause startup issues. You can check [Texas Mac Man's PRAM, battery, PMU tutorial|http://www.geocities.com/texas_macman/pram.html] for information about that.

You need a SCSI drive connection. A G4 probably won't have one unless there is a special card (and even so, I think there are different versions SCSI and newer ones won't work). The G3 could take the drive -- I have a G3 with both IDE and old SCSI drives. Your G3 probably has an IDE drive as its boot drive so you wouldn't even need to worry about jumpers since it would be on a different controller. You could put the SCSI drive in the G3, boot up the G3 and then copy the files off. The only thing is, you need something to which you can then copy the files in the G3. If the G3 is in its base configuration it probably won't have either a CD burner or a USB port. If you installed either then a second transfer should be no problem. It would be a hassle, but you could copy the files to the G3 IDE drive, then move that drive into your G4 and copy the files off that. There's a number of possibilities here, including buying an ethernet crossover cable and networking, but if it is just a once off thing I wouldn't bother buying a cable.

The hard disk must be able to spin properly. With Macs older than this one, stories about "stiction" issues (hardened grease et cetera preventing the disk from rotating) were not unusual.

Problems with the hard drive, affecting other parts of the computer, can be ruled out by disconnecting the drive (always disconnect any power to the computer first). Then make an attempt to start from a floppy. Prior to any hard drive disconnection, you could also try starting from a floppy while holding down the four keys Command(Apple) + Option(Alt) + Shift + Delete(Backspace).

A new battery may or may not help.

It might not be a bad idea to inspect the board. Look for obvious signs of faulty components, such as leaking capacitors.

Jan

There is no beeper in any Hard Drive I have ever seen.

That said, I have experienced a periodic loud noise emanating from a Hard Drive that had a huge dent in the top, administered by UPS.

It appears that the drive motor, completely unable to spin, made a loud musical noise as it attempted to spin the stuck platters. It subsided for a few seconds, then repeated. After a few tries it stopped.

If this is similar to your situation, you may not be able to get the data off that drive. But consider that the situation is already fatal -- therefore you have nothing to loose. If this is the sticktion problem, thumping on the drive has been suggested -- but not with a hammer, with your hand. And not with the drive powered on. Dropping a running drive from as little as one inch height can ruin it.

Message was edited by: Grant Bennet-Alder

Be careful. If the hard drive's interface is faulty, it could possibly damage the SCSI circuits of another computer.

At the LC, what happens if you disconnect the low voltage DC power cable (not the SCSI data cable) of the hard drive, then start from a floppy, then reconnect the power cable?

If the hard disk is not spinning, have you tried knocking on the drive? Or, (removed) swinging the drive?

Jan

I have mentioned the following before on this forum, and had other readers wince in writing. If the thumping method does not work, I had a drive suffering from stiction back in 1992. After unsuccessfully thumping I figured I had nothing to lose so I unscrewed the drive cover (screws behind the labels with all the dire warnings). I then moved the disc plate a little bit with my finger and then tried starting up the drive. Whatever crud was in there was dislodged and the drive started up, giving me a chance to get everything off it. I was told that sometimes this can also result in very noisy and messy mechanical failure, so be warned, but it worked for me. If you think it is stiction then you might want to try this in the LCIII first where you have nothing to lose if the SCSI controller baulks. If it works then you'll need to figure out how you want to get the files off the SCSI drive an onto something your other computer can read.

(1) the motherboard is buried behind the entire inner assembly, and (2) the hard drive in there has a different connector so I wouldn't expect the G3 to have both connectors. The old drive has about 10 more pins in the back than the G3 drive.

If you are talking about a Beige G3, (1) the inner assembly swings open (hinged on the right) when you undo the pale green latches.

(2) it has a 50-pin SCSI connector on the motherboard, right next to the two IDE connectors -- but may or may not have a SCSI cable inside.

As I mentioned above, the G3 drive is probably an IDE drive. The SCSI connector, if I recall correctly, is located toward the back on the right, covered by the power supply when the doors are closed.

By the way, at least on my Beige, those doors were tough to get open even with the latches open all the way but basically the machine opens up like a lop-sided book once you have the case cover off.