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Satoru Murata

Q: Slow Wireless LAN in Leopard

All right, I've spent the past 12 hours (on and off, of course) looking through all the threads in here, doing a lot of experimentation, and a bunch of clean installs and whatnots, and I've decided to start a new thread, since in many of the said threads, some people seemed to have similar issues, but the other issues in the same threads seem to be different problems, and it just becomes confusing when you try to trouble shoot something and people are talking about different problems.


So, this thread is specifically for people who satisfy these criteria under Leopard:

1) You're having issues with very slow file transfers in your *local network* when at least one end is connected wirelessly; that is to say, when both ends are connected to the router via ethernet, you see no problem at all.

2) Your wireless connection doesn't display problems when connecting to the internet.

3) It is not specifically an 802.11n issue; i.e., the problem can be duplicated when in Mixed b/g only mode and/or using an 802.11g router.

4) It's not a router connection issue; i.e., your wireless connection isn't being dropped, and you are able to find your AP and connect to it without any problems.




So basically, that more or less sums up my problem. My equipments:

MacBook Core2Duo 2.2GHz, 802.11b/g/n, OSX 10.5.2
iMac Core2Duo 2.13GHz, 802.11b/g/n, OSX 10.5.2
Router 1: TRENDnet TEW-631BRP (Draft N router), H/W V3.0R, FW v.1.0.3.7
Router 2: NETGEAR WGR614 v.5 (g), FW v.1.0.3_1.0.3

Internet: RCN Cable, 20Mbps/2Mbps


In my usual setup, the iMac is connected via Ethernet and the Macbook is connected wirelessly.


I know that this is a Leopard problem, but I'm not so sure it's a 10.5.2 specific problem. Let me explain.

I'd been using the TRENDnet more or less happily for the last couple of months. My iMac and Macbook have been in sync in terms of Leopard versions, so I know things were OK till last night when I first noticed problems. Transferring a large video file from the iMac to the Macbook would start off fine, then really slow down, and finally almost completely halt. Naturally, I blamed 10.5.2.


After trying all the different "fixes" in the Leopard/network related threads with no avail, I tried booting my laptop into Tiger (10.4.11) installed on an external HDD. Voila, wireless file transfer speed is fast at around 8MB/sec (obviously using N). I did a fresh install of 10.5, and the speed immediately dropped down to 1-2MB/sec, although not necessarily stalling. Then, updating to 10.5.2 slowed it down more, and now the transfers will sooner or later almost completely stall.


Again, I tried all the suggested remedies (use b/g Only mode, adjust RTS/Fragmentation thresholds, use WEP instead of WPA, delete all the Network Services in System Preferences -> Network, etc., etc.). Nothing helps. I tried swapping the router to an older Netgear (802.11g/b), and it's the same deal, so it's not a router issue.


A definite characteristic is that the transfer seems to stall after a certain period of sustained transferring; i.e., this will usually only happen when transferring large files (>200MB). If I were to download a folder with 600 JPEG files @ 1MB each, there won't be a problem, and the transfer rate will be pretty fast (although not as fast as under Tiger @ 7-8MB/sec), and it won't stall. It's only when I try to transfer big video files, etc., that this problem occurs.



If you are having similar issues, please share your experiences, suggest remedies, offer insights. I will try to answer any question you may have and that I may have missed to address.


PLEASE: if your symptoms are different from what's listed up there, please try to refrain from posting here, unless you are absolutely certain that the issues are related. Thanks.

iMac 20" Core2Duo 2.13Ghz/ MacBook 2.2 GHz Superdrive (White), Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Feb 14, 2008 12:39 AM

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Q: Slow Wireless LAN in Leopard

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  • by Chris Rolfe,

    Chris Rolfe Chris Rolfe Mar 15, 2008 1:07 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 15, 2008 1:07 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    I have precisely the same issue. After 10.5.2, LAN copying stalls.

    I posted mine as: http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1442745&tstart=0
  • by puck99,

    puck99 puck99 Mar 15, 2008 1:52 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Safari
    Mar 15, 2008 1:52 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    I've noticed this issue on my network since I got my MacPro about 6 months ago (upgraded to Leopard). I was able to stream movies from itunes on a PC I have with out issue. But trying to stream them from the MacPro forget it. Syncing to AppleTV takes forever and moving files to shared disks on my airport extreme takes forever as well. The overall performance from my mixed n/g network is lackluster at best but mostly just crappy.

    Something else I also noticed by checking the connected wireless clients in airport admin (advanced > logging > logs & stats) is that the only computer on my network connecting at its potential is the PC!! Both iBooks (also Leopard), the Airport Express, the AppleTV AND the MacPro connect at less than half the Tx rate they should be (although sometimes the ibook fluctuates up to 54mbps but usually hangs out around 18 to 36).

    Here are the rates specifically:

    iBook G4s (g) : 24
    PC (g) : 54
    AppleTV (n) : 130
    MacPro (n) : 65 (crap!!!)
    Airport Express (g) : 24


    Whats up with that Apple???
  • by FlashYourWeb,

    FlashYourWeb FlashYourWeb Mar 16, 2008 2:32 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 16, 2008 2:32 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    I just noticed an Airport update coming across Software Update.

    -----------------------

    The AirPort Base Station Update 2008-001 includes general fixes and compatibility updates for the following applications:

    - AirPort Utility
    - AirPort Disk Utility
    - AirPort Base Station Agent

    -----------------------

    I am curious what this update will do to those of us who have used the ack fix? Any input is appreciated.
  • by Draft1,

    Draft1 Draft1 Mar 16, 2008 3:56 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 16, 2008 3:56 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    I am having the exact same problem that everyone is describing here: When trying to transfer large files on my internal network via the finder, the transfer quickly stops. I'd also like to note that I'm not having network connection dropping issues. Also, downloads from the internet (slingbox, installers, etc.) all have absolutely no issues. Lastly, is that scp'ing between the same 2 machines having transfer issues, does not exhibit the same slowness issue. I haven't seen anyone report this yet, but I think this is important because this utility is separate from the Finder. This fact makes me believe that it's solely Finder related, rather then a wireless implementation problem. Can other people having issues try this and report back their findings?
  • by markbau,

    markbau markbau Mar 16, 2008 4:11 AM in response to FlashYourWeb
    Level 1 (25 points)
    Mar 16, 2008 4:11 AM in response to FlashYourWeb
    Nothing at all, I installed this update on Friday, it only changes the utility that is used to change settings on your airport router. The wireless woes everyone is experiencing are caused by changes made to the airport card inside your computer.
  • by ibosie,

    ibosie ibosie Mar 16, 2008 4:17 AM in response to Draft1
    Level 4 (1,119 points)
    Mar 16, 2008 4:17 AM in response to Draft1
    In my case even secure copy exhibits the same drop-to-crawl behaviour on Airport. In the meantime, I purchased a couple of Devolo 200Mbps HomePlugs and I now have a steady 50Mbps Ethernet connection throughout the house - even Finder file copies are working without slowing down.
  • by Scott Talkington,

    Scott Talkington Scott Talkington Mar 16, 2008 9:07 AM in response to ibosie
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 16, 2008 9:07 AM in response to ibosie
    I'm not quite clear about this problem. I have a MacBook connected via WiFi to an Airport Extreme base station, and an XP-Pro box connected by ethernet to the base station. My USB hard drives are connected directly to the base station. Will this problem have an effect on transfer rates between my MacBook and the base station? If so, how do I monitor the transfer rates. I've watched several videos stored on the base station drives, and they seem to work OK, although the "conversion" from wpm to quicktime seemed to take longer than usual, before the videos started playing. But once they played they seemed to go OK.

    Anyway, what I mean to ask is whether this is just an issue between Mac computers, or is it also a base station issue?
  • by overclockedmind,

    overclockedmind overclockedmind Mar 17, 2008 7:16 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 17, 2008 7:16 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Having the same issue here on my 2GHz Macbook. The "band-aid" does seem to help, however restarting in Safe Mode once and then again into normal mode did not.

    I'm looking at AirPortExtremeUpdate2007004.dmg, wondering if I should try manually installing the old kext in place of the current one. I know it says on the tin that it's for 10.4.10, but then again thats very close to when wireless was supposed to be fully working, yes? Hate to do this with a brand new machine that I just bought Friday, though, so I am thinking it over a bit first.

    -- Joshua
  • by overclockedmind,

    overclockedmind overclockedmind Mar 17, 2008 8:51 AM in response to overclockedmind
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 17, 2008 8:51 AM in response to overclockedmind
    Yeah, that didnt work, although my wizardry with that kind of thing has deteriorated since the days of using my B&W G3. I would suggest -NOT- trying it, as unless you're making backups, et cetera, you could wind up with a unusable AirPort Extreme card, a kernel panic, or the like.

    I gave it a shot, as I am seriously considering going backward to 10.5.0 where things where better.

    Joshua

    Message was edited by: overclockedmind
  • by overclockedmind,

    overclockedmind overclockedmind Mar 17, 2008 9:33 AM in response to overclockedmind
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 17, 2008 9:33 AM in response to overclockedmind
    I need to say that my previous post, that is, the one in which I replied to myself. is innacurate; I was able to install version 1.6.2 of IO80211Family.kext from AirPortExtremeUpdate2007004.dmg and it seems to be working. However, I haven't tested it long term, I havent tested throughput, and I dont know that Apple would condone this, so I wont comment further than to say:

    It would appear that the IO80211Family.kext from that update works. If you know how to properly install it, and you are thinking about reinstalling, give it a shot. If you DONT know what to do to get this installed, _do not_ under any circumstances whatsoever try this. To anyone that does try, this is not listed as compatible with 10.5 and could result in a corrupted installation, a machine that will not boot properly, wireless that wont work, and the like.

    To any moderators / powers-that-be: If this is a no-no, feel free to delete posts including the original that indicates I have the issue, and I will reply simply that I have this issue.

    -- Joshua
  • by windexh8er,

    windexh8er windexh8er Mar 19, 2008 7:30 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 19, 2008 7:30 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Well, I'm not sure what the deal is with everyone else's setup. The only way to tell if it's at the link level is to do a raw bandwidth test, and the best way to do that is with iperf. I have all of the latest updates (including today's 50MB security update) installed on my Black Macbook (C2D - 2GHz). I'm a network engineer so I have a pretty non-typical home network. The current setup to do the test was:

    Macbook --> Airport Extreme (100Mb Version) --> L3 Switch --> BSD Gateway Server

    Just FYI, none of this was routed. This was all L2, I was going to test transfer to another segment on the network but really I will get the same results after the first few packets routed and then fast switched. I usually test network segments once a month to maintain a baseline and this is pretty typical for me. Here are the results:

    blackbox:~ djmeier$ iperf -i 60 -t 600 -c 10.100.0.1 -d
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Server listening on TCP port 5001
    TCP window size: 256 KByte (default)
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Client connecting to 10.100.0.1, TCP port 5001
    TCP window size: 129 KByte (default)
    ------------------------------------------------------------
    [ 4] local 10.100.0.121 port 49187 connected with 10.100.0.1 port 5001
    [ 4] 0.0-60.0 sec 638 MBytes 89.2 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 60.0-120.0 sec 642 MBytes 89.8 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 120.0-180.0 sec 642 MBytes 89.7 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 180.0-240.0 sec 636 MBytes 89.0 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 240.0-300.0 sec 627 MBytes 87.6 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 300.0-360.0 sec 637 MBytes 89.0 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 360.0-420.0 sec 636 MBytes 88.9 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 420.0-480.0 sec 621 MBytes 86.8 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 480.0-540.0 sec 615 MBytes 86.0 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 540.0-600.0 sec 640 MBytes 89.4 Mbits/sec
    [ 4] 0.0-600.0 sec 6.19 GBytes 88.6 Mbits/sec

    As you can see I did a 'dual' test (EDIT: scratch that -- the test was only one way due in part to the firewall rules I have setup on the Macbook even though it was a dual test). You can see that I sustained right around 89Mbit/sec for the 10 minute test. Over that time I transfered almost 6.2 Gigabytes of data. And this is without tuning the window size for the local LAN. The bottleneck here is the Airport Extreme as I have the original 100Mb version. If I had the Gigabit version I would expect much better throughput over the N connection (BTW -- it's running in the 5GHz with wide bands turned on over WPA2 Enterprise encryption, roughly 50 feet away from the AP, I also do have a stucco house so that helps me with regards to outside interference).

    So in short order I don't believe the problem people are having is at the transport level. Maybe something with the actual file transfer protocol itself, but in my opinion it is not at the network layer.

    One other thought, IPv6 is turned off on all of my interfaces when it's not being used. This can be shut off from the network panel, under advanced, and then in TCP/IP. I haven't tested with this on, but am guessing it (again) won't make a difference. I'll retest right now and if the results change I'll repost.

    Message was edited by: windexh8er
  • by BobP1776,

    BobP1776 BobP1776 Mar 19, 2008 9:08 AM in response to windexh8er
    Level 3 (695 points)
    Mar 19, 2008 9:08 AM in response to windexh8er
    windexh8r,
    But are YOU seeing the problem at all when you attempt normal file transfers within the LAN or high speed uploads into the internet (greater than 3Mbps expected upload speed) using the user level tools (e.g., Finder and Safari)?

    Apparently not everyone is seeing this problem on their 10.5.2 machines, and so your result may simply indicate you are not having the problem because the transport layer does not happen to be broken on your 10.5.2 machine.

    What we need, somehow, is to apply tools like this to a Mac and network combo that is exhibiting the problem.

    We've also had reports that even Mac and network combos exhibiting the problem do NOT have a problem if the lower level UNIX tools are used to do transfers. This would suggest that the problem is not at the lowest levels of the networking stack, but at some level above those tools and below the user applications.
    --Bob
  • by Satoru Murata,

    Satoru Murata Satoru Murata Mar 19, 2008 9:25 AM in response to BobP1776
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Mar 19, 2008 9:25 AM in response to BobP1776
    Sort of adding to this, as I mentioned somewhere above, FTP transfer exhibits no problem whatsoever. I can get close to the theoretical maximum of my N router using (S)FTP.
  • by Tom Robinson5,

    Tom Robinson5 Tom Robinson5 Mar 19, 2008 11:23 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 2 (184 points)
    Mar 19, 2008 11:23 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    My experience confirms this: ChronoSync would slow down drastically copying a large file (800 MB), yet the Finder copied the same file fine.
  • by PsycHotIc_PHI,

    PsycHotIc_PHI PsycHotIc_PHI Mar 19, 2008 1:01 PM in response to Tom Robinson5
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mar 19, 2008 1:01 PM in response to Tom Robinson5
    i am also having this issue. i'm using the extreme with only N turned on and at 5Hz. moving files within the network was fine up until 10.5.2. both machines are running 10.5.2 and now when larger files are trying to be sent computer to computer i basically get throttled. starts out at 1.4MB/sec and after about 10seconds of transfer everything drops to less than 15kb/sec. the odd thing is that i use EyeConnect to stream media to my ps3 and when i watch hidef movies streamed from my imac to the ps3 (wirelessly) i get speeds like 1.3MB/sec.

    i'm using istatmenu and with internet and stream i download and upload just fine, its only when i'm doing in-network transfers that i get throttled speeds. i installed that recent update to the airport and it has made the situation worse, instead of gettin 10-15 seconds of decent speed when doing file transfers its more like 3-5 seconds of 1.xMB/sec then back down to 1xkbs. what gives?

    does streaming media and file transfers use different procedures, how come everything else i do is fine but when i'm doing a file transfer within the network everything comes to a slow?
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