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Satoru Murata

Q: Slow Wireless LAN in Leopard

All right, I've spent the past 12 hours (on and off, of course) looking through all the threads in here, doing a lot of experimentation, and a bunch of clean installs and whatnots, and I've decided to start a new thread, since in many of the said threads, some people seemed to have similar issues, but the other issues in the same threads seem to be different problems, and it just becomes confusing when you try to trouble shoot something and people are talking about different problems.


So, this thread is specifically for people who satisfy these criteria under Leopard:

1) You're having issues with very slow file transfers in your *local network* when at least one end is connected wirelessly; that is to say, when both ends are connected to the router via ethernet, you see no problem at all.

2) Your wireless connection doesn't display problems when connecting to the internet.

3) It is not specifically an 802.11n issue; i.e., the problem can be duplicated when in Mixed b/g only mode and/or using an 802.11g router.

4) It's not a router connection issue; i.e., your wireless connection isn't being dropped, and you are able to find your AP and connect to it without any problems.




So basically, that more or less sums up my problem. My equipments:

MacBook Core2Duo 2.2GHz, 802.11b/g/n, OSX 10.5.2
iMac Core2Duo 2.13GHz, 802.11b/g/n, OSX 10.5.2
Router 1: TRENDnet TEW-631BRP (Draft N router), H/W V3.0R, FW v.1.0.3.7
Router 2: NETGEAR WGR614 v.5 (g), FW v.1.0.3_1.0.3

Internet: RCN Cable, 20Mbps/2Mbps


In my usual setup, the iMac is connected via Ethernet and the Macbook is connected wirelessly.


I know that this is a Leopard problem, but I'm not so sure it's a 10.5.2 specific problem. Let me explain.

I'd been using the TRENDnet more or less happily for the last couple of months. My iMac and Macbook have been in sync in terms of Leopard versions, so I know things were OK till last night when I first noticed problems. Transferring a large video file from the iMac to the Macbook would start off fine, then really slow down, and finally almost completely halt. Naturally, I blamed 10.5.2.


After trying all the different "fixes" in the Leopard/network related threads with no avail, I tried booting my laptop into Tiger (10.4.11) installed on an external HDD. Voila, wireless file transfer speed is fast at around 8MB/sec (obviously using N). I did a fresh install of 10.5, and the speed immediately dropped down to 1-2MB/sec, although not necessarily stalling. Then, updating to 10.5.2 slowed it down more, and now the transfers will sooner or later almost completely stall.


Again, I tried all the suggested remedies (use b/g Only mode, adjust RTS/Fragmentation thresholds, use WEP instead of WPA, delete all the Network Services in System Preferences -> Network, etc., etc.). Nothing helps. I tried swapping the router to an older Netgear (802.11g/b), and it's the same deal, so it's not a router issue.


A definite characteristic is that the transfer seems to stall after a certain period of sustained transferring; i.e., this will usually only happen when transferring large files (>200MB). If I were to download a folder with 600 JPEG files @ 1MB each, there won't be a problem, and the transfer rate will be pretty fast (although not as fast as under Tiger @ 7-8MB/sec), and it won't stall. It's only when I try to transfer big video files, etc., that this problem occurs.



If you are having similar issues, please share your experiences, suggest remedies, offer insights. I will try to answer any question you may have and that I may have missed to address.


PLEASE: if your symptoms are different from what's listed up there, please try to refrain from posting here, unless you are absolutely certain that the issues are related. Thanks.

iMac 20" Core2Duo 2.13Ghz/ MacBook 2.2 GHz Superdrive (White), Mac OS X (10.5.2)

Posted on Feb 14, 2008 12:39 AM

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Q: Slow Wireless LAN in Leopard

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  • by JOHN ALBERGO,

    JOHN ALBERGO JOHN ALBERGO Mar 2, 2008 6:29 PM in response to Sterling Garwood
    Level 2 (239 points)
    Mar 2, 2008 6:29 PM in response to Sterling Garwood
    Test configuration - I have a Mac Pro which holds my movie content, and I have that shared. On a MBP, the movies are added to the local library, while the files themselves are on the MP's shared folder. Router is an Airport Extreme Base Station in b/g/n mode. Both machines running 10.5.2

    This is so that we can keep the movies on the MP and not fill the notebook's drive.

    On the MBP, open iTunes with iPod mounted. Try to place movies onto the iPod. This pulls the data from the MBP over filesharing. Kept delayed_ack at 0 on the MP ("sender") while varying the setting on MBP (receiver)

    Results - the slowdown is entirely reproducible and dependent on the delayed_ack of the receiving computer in this case. Delayed_ack 0 on the MBP allows transfers in excess of 1 Mb/sec, while settings of 2, or 3, result in transfers in the 30 to 60 Kb/sec range. Changing delayed_ack on the fly while the transmision is ongoing gives these results repeatedly.

    Obtained tcpdump from MBP during the slowdown (delayed_ack 3 on MBP). This was not a "silly window" problem, at least not directly. Window size from MBP was consistently full-size, with the exception of ACKs, which is the result of delayed_ack=0 not allowing "piggybacking" of the ACKs.

    The slowdown is seen as a frequent delay in the acks from the receiver, often close to 200 millliseconds!. This seems doubly odd since the default (and unchangeable) delayacktime in Leopard appears to be 50 milliseconds. The timings below are typical of what is in the dump. When you get 4 or 5 of these in a second, throughput will obviously be quite slow.

    deltasec cumulative from to length

    0.000038 0.000038 sender router 442
    0.002020 0.002058 router sender 66
    0.000799 0.002857 router sender 102
    0.000017 0.002874 sender router 66
    0.000136 0.003010 sender router 82
    0.000780 0.003790 sender router 1514
    0.000029 0.003819 sender router 1514
    0.002115 0.005934 router sender 66
    0.000020 0.005954 sender router 1514
    0.195172 0.201126 router sender 66
    0.000023 0.201149 sender router 1514
    0.000007 0.201156 sender router 1514
    0.000004 0.201160 sender router 1514
    0.201178 0.402338 router sender 66
    0.000034 0.402372 sender router 1514
    0.000026 0.402398 sender router 1514
    0.000014 0.402412 sender router 1514
    0.004060 0.406472 router sender 66
    0.000017 0.406489 sender router 1514
    0.000006 0.406495 sender router 1514
    0.001755 0.408250 router sender 66
    0.000017 0.408267 sender router 1514
    0.000006 0.408273 sender router 1514
    0.001892 0.410165 router sender 66
    0.000017 0.410182 sender router 1514
    0.000006 0.410188 sender router 1514
    0.001457 0.411645 router sender 66
    0.000016 0.411661 sender router 1514
    0.000006 0.411667 sender router 1514
    0.000004 0.411671 sender router 1514
    0.191501 0.603172 router sender 66
    0.000044 0.603216 sender router 1514
    0.000031 0.603247 sender router 1514
    0.000013 0.603260 sender router 1514
    0.203152 0.806412 router sender 66
    0.000028 0.806440 sender router 1514
    0.000019 0.806459 sender router 1514
    0.000004 0.806463 sender router 1514
    0.003989 0.810452 sender DNS 84
    0.014449 0.824901 DNS sender 84
    0.001212 0.826113 sender DNS 84
    0.014585 0.840698 DNS sender 84
    0.167026 1.007724 router sender 66
    0.000035 1.007759 sender router 1514
    0.000025 1.007784 sender router 1514
    0.000013 1.007797 sender router 1514
    0.201325 1.209122 router sender 66
    0.000025 1.209147 sender router 1514
    0.000008 1.209155 sender router 1514
    0.000005 1.209160 sender router 1514

    Message was edited by: JOHN ALBERGO
  • by Trent Santa Rosa,

    Trent Santa Rosa Trent Santa Rosa Mar 2, 2008 6:52 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 2, 2008 6:52 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    I can attest and concur.

    Environment
    Computer 1: Mac Book Pro (Santa Rosa) 3rd Gen
    Computer 2: Power Mac G5 (Early 2005)
    OS: OS X 1.5.2
    Router: Airport Express (G mode only)

    Internet connections OK
    Screen Share OK
    iPhoto Share OK
    File Share (APF Only) SLOOOOOoooooowwwww as ...

    On a side note: If I connect the two computers with fire wire as the network connection, things are fast. Duh !!! but, Even if I have the firewire set as the preferred network interface on both of the Macs, I have to turn the wireless network off for the file transfer to occur fast.
  • by Fred Gioia,

    Fred Gioia Fred Gioia Mar 2, 2008 7:12 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 2, 2008 7:12 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    I have been experiencing the same issues with slow LAN transfers over airport with my macbook pro, mac pro, and airport extreme (gigabit ethernet) under 10.5.2. After reading the posts in this forum i have come up with a temporary solution and seem to be getting maximal airport 'n' speeds. Please try this out and see if you can get the same results:

    1. Install the +delayed ack+ startup item on all machines used to transfer. It can be found here:
    http://systemsboy.blogspot.com/2006/02/delayed-ack-startup-item-for-intel.html

    2. Downgrade firmware on airport extreme base to 7.2. This can be done by entering manual setup mode for the selected bas station; selecting the 'base station' menu and selecting 'upload firmware...'. You will then be allowed to download the 7.2 firmware and install it.

    3. Make sure that you are using NAT and DHCP i.e. select 'share a public ip address' under the pull down menu for the 'connection sharing' option under the 'internet' pane..... Using NAT as opposed to bridge mode made a difference for me, but that might have to do with my apt complex's router setup

    4. Lastly i selected channel 8 due to the cornucopia of wireless lan's here. also this might not be necessary


    This seems to be a fix, although a firmware update for the router by apple and an OS update hopefully will supply a more permanent solution
  • by Shawn Parker1,

    Shawn Parker1 Shawn Parker1 Mar 2, 2008 7:40 PM in response to Fred Gioia
    Level 1 (125 points)
    Mar 2, 2008 7:40 PM in response to Fred Gioia
    Simply making sure the Delayed Ack fix is applied on BOTH ENDS works here. The router is on auto-channel select and I haven't messed with the firmware (I'm actually mixing routers).
  • by Fred Gioia,

    Fred Gioia Fred Gioia Mar 2, 2008 8:38 PM in response to Shawn Parker1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 2, 2008 8:38 PM in response to Shawn Parker1
    What are your transfer speeds, just out of curiosity? I found i was getting around 1-2 MB/s with 7.2.1 and averaging 7-8 MB/s (what i would expect from an n series router) with 7.2.
  • by John Osborne,

    John Osborne John Osborne Mar 4, 2008 7:14 PM in response to Fred Gioia
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Mar 4, 2008 7:14 PM in response to Fred Gioia
    I can confirm the delayed ack (sudo sysctl -w net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0) change works.

    I was transferring files across my home (linksys) wireless from a wired iMac, and it was going extremely slowly. While I let the transfer run, I hit the Internets and found this thread (and a few others). I applied the ack change to my MacBook Pro only (after double-checking the default setting), and watched the transfer speed go up dramatically. It have taken ~20 minutes to get 1/8 done and finished in ~1 minute.

    There definitely appears to be a problem with 10.5.2's wifi. I don't think setting the delayed ack to 0 is the permanent answer, but it sure takes some of the sting out.
  • by Germancity,

    Germancity Germancity Mar 4, 2008 8:21 PM in response to John Osborne
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Apple Music
    Mar 4, 2008 8:21 PM in response to John Osborne
    Same problem here. Thanks for setting up this thread for the issue.
  • by Chris McGrail,

    Chris McGrail Chris McGrail Mar 5, 2008 12:59 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 5, 2008 12:59 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    Thanks for bringing this up - I'd mentioned something similar back in December - http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?threadID=1277773&tstart=0 - but had no responses.

    My usual scenario is that I want to copy an AVI over my network, say around the 350mb size. Scrub that, I'd love to be able to just stream it but that's never ever worked. Copying quickly would instead be just fine, if it were a real possibility.

    There are a few machines here: MacPro, MacBook, MacMini, PowerBook. Reception on all of them is 4 bars, no problem. Base station is the recent n capable Airport Extreme, set to be g compatible. All machines run Leopard 10.5.2, but I must admit I had these problems up to 2 years ago when I had an entirely different suite of machines all running Tiger, and an older UFO-style Airport Extreme.

    Copying these 350mb files around can take anything up to an hour! Generally speaking it will take 19-24 minutes to copy a movie TO another machine, and around 13 minutes to copy FROM another machine. However right now I'm doing a copy FROM and it's saying 42 minutes. This is ludicrous because I can get download speeds from the net of around 600-800k a second. Screen sharing works like a dream (mostly) and streaming audio from other machines in Front Row is no problem. BUT, speeds aren't enough that I can stream movies and copying files is outrageously slow and laborious.

    I have the delayed_ack fix applied and can't say it's making a whole load of difference to my situation.

    Hope this gets resolved soon, starting to wish I'd put CAT5 everywhere.
  • by Johnathan Burger,

    Johnathan Burger Johnathan Burger Mar 5, 2008 5:57 PM in response to hankchill
    Level 6 (16,109 points)
    Mac OS X
    Mar 5, 2008 5:57 PM in response to hankchill
    Just started having this issue.
    Mac mini core duo connected via airport(full signal bar)
    iMac connected to router via ethernet
    Belkin wireless G router

    Internet browsing fine, downloading from internet fine.
    File transfers from the iMac to the mini may start out fast(maybe first 50mb of 350 mb file), then crawl to an excruciatingly slow crawl.
    If I turn off encryption-I get normal speeds.
  • by David -MrWho- Brodosi,

    David -MrWho- Brodosi David -MrWho- Brodosi Mar 5, 2008 6:27 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (100 points)
    Mar 5, 2008 6:27 PM in response to Satoru Murata
    I have two G4 Powerbook 15" Macs running 10.4.x.

    The first Powerbook I did an upgrade to the new 10.5 and patched to 10.5.2.

    The second Powerbook was a complete wipe and installed to 10.5.2.

    Both units were then attached to a linksys WRT54G running firmware Version: v1.02.2 and the best I could get was two bars. Even 10 feet from the router, I got two bars. Now before the update or install both machines got full four bars. I also was able to move around the outside of the house and still get a connection, but now I can't.l I have spent four days searching the internet and one full day just looking through the 12,000+ posts about this subject here and still no answers.

    No issues with my desktop Dual 2.3GHz power PC G5 lan connections

    What ever you say, having over 12,000 post expressing concerns over this issue is a big thing regardless of Apple monitors the forums. SOMEONE FROM APPLE DOES SCAN THESE FORUMS.
  • by Satoru Murata,

    Satoru Murata Satoru Murata Mar 5, 2008 6:48 PM in response to David -MrWho- Brodosi
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Mar 5, 2008 6:48 PM in response to David -MrWho- Brodosi
    David,

    Thanks for the post, but it appears that the problem you're seeing is not related to the topic of this particular thread. As stated in the topic starter post, this thread is specifically about slow intranet/wireless transfer speeds, not connection issues. I have no problems whatsoever connecting to my router in the next room and I constantly have 4 bars.
  • by Chris Torrence,

    Chris Torrence Chris Torrence Mar 7, 2008 9:16 PM in response to Chris McGrail
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Mar 7, 2008 9:16 PM in response to Chris McGrail
    Just to add another data point:

    I have a MacBook Pro, 2.5 GHz, running 10.5.2, Darwin kernel 9.2.1. I also have an iMac, running 10.5.2, kernel 9.2.0. Also have a Windows box, running XP.

    Transferring files (both large and small) to the MacBook Pro has been abysmally slow (100 KB/s), both from the Windows box and the iMac. Transferring files to the iMac, from Windows, is consistently faster, about 2 MB/s.

    I set the delayed_ack to 0, but it didn't seem to make a difference (although I never tried huge files).

    However, setting the channel to 8 on the Netgear wireless router seemed to help. Transferring files to the MacBook Pro is now up to about 2 MB/s. Still well below the max for 802.11g.
  • by Satoru Murata,

    Satoru Murata Satoru Murata Mar 7, 2008 10:24 PM in response to Chris Torrence
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Mar 7, 2008 10:24 PM in response to Chris Torrence
    Just to make things clear, are all of your boxes connected wirelessly, or is any of them wired?
  • by Heijtink,

    Heijtink Heijtink Mar 9, 2008 8:55 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mar 9, 2008 8:55 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Hi Satoru,

    Thank you for starting this thread. I just realized that I also have very slow WLAN connections. Because both of my machines are on Leopard 10.5.2 I have never known better but to have slow connections. I never realized that a 802.11N connection could reach transfer rates of 20 MB/sec. I have never experienced such a fast wireless connection for file transfers.

    Though the link to the systemtechguy has made de transfer faster. I still only get transfer rates of 2 MB/sec.

    Thus I wouldn't state that this is a fix for the problem.

    It is the 9th now. Time Capsule has already been lauched (pun intended) and still no wifi update.

    Anybody know how long it takes for Apple to respond to this problem.

    Has anybody already harassed apple on the phone to push them?

    Keep it up,

    Tom
  • by barongreenback,

    barongreenback barongreenback Mar 9, 2008 9:50 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Mar 9, 2008 9:50 AM in response to Satoru Murata
    Another one with exactly the same problem here. Wireless speed drops to next to nothing after around 800mb of LAN transfer between my imac and macbook using the AEBS.
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