Will a photo/film scanner scan the files in RAW format for Aperture?

I have not heard of any scanner that outputs in raw (but I might have overlooked something). Since scanning is done under controlled conditions (constant, defined lightsource) a 16 bit tiff should give you very good results.

And Aperture is happy with tiffs as well (however, not the zip-compressed ones, at least in 1.5.x).

RAW is a form of output from a camera only. It gives you all the data that was captured on the camera's sensor, without any processing of the image. Then, in a program like Aperture, you can do any adjustments you want to the RAW file to produce your version of the image. Aperture will provide a default set of initial adjustments for the RAW file, but you can change the default or make any changes to the initial image de-code that you want for a particular image.

The scanner output can be in TIFF or JPEG or a number of other forms, depending on the scanner. In any event, your scan software can provide a very rich file, which you can adjust in Aperture. This file is really the equivalent of a RAW file from a camera.

The critical point is that any initial file imported into Aperture is never changed by Aperture. This is what is meant by "lossless" adjustments. The adjustments you make are kept track of in a separate digital file which is used to produce the image on a screen or in a print, or to make a copy of the version for exporting by e-mail, or to the web.

I have an older Nikon LS40 scanner (Coolscan IV) and have been very happy with the Vuescan software that supports literally hundreds of scanners. It has several options for output, (raw, DNG, Tiff, jpeg) but the raw output was not recognized by Aperture 1.5.6. It would be very useful to me, as I ponder shopping for a new 35mm film scanner if Apple would put out a list of raw format scanners. While tiff would probably capture most of the data, will the raw adjustments in Aperture 2 be available for tiff files?

You should scan the files in TIFF format.

The only case of "RAW" format scanning is if you use Vuescan and elect to save files in is RAW format. That would be a bad idea as Vuescan's "RAW" format is not supported by Aperture.

Use TIFF; it's the best choice here and using Vuescan's "RAW" format won't give you the benefits of RAW files as captured from camera.

Sasl wrote:
RAW is a form of output from a camera only. It gives you all the data that was captured on the camera's sensor, without any processing of the image.

OK, this part is correct.

The scanner output can be in TIFF or JPEG or a number of other forms, depending on the scanner. In any event, your scan software can provide a very rich file, which you can adjust in Aperture. This file is really the equivalent of a RAW file from a camera.

This part is wrong. It is not the equivalent at all.

A camera Raw file is pure sensor data, before it has been de-mosaiced into RGB. Part of what a Raw processor does is make that conversion into RGB so that you can see a picture. I doubt there is any scanner software that provides the equivalent of a "camera Raw" file (except maybe a development tool for hardware engineers). Scanner software does the conversion to RGB (or CMYK) and that is what you will always get. A pure camera Raw file cannot be viewed by most image software, which is why you need a converter like Aperture, Adobe Camera Raw, or Lightroom to view and edit it.

VueScan's raw format is not the same thing at all. VueScan raw existed long before camera Raw did. VueScan raw is already an RGB file, so again, it is not camera Raw. In VueScan, the difference between saving as raw and TIFF is that the VueScan raw has not had any black point, white point, or white balance information applied to it, but otherwise it is still a post-conversion RGB TIFF.

You want to see the difference? Open up a camera Raw file and a VueScan raw file in Photoshop. The camera Raw file will pop open in Adobe Camera Raw. The VueScan raw file will open straight into Photoshop and can be manipulated into a usable image with nothing more than the Curves command...just like any other non-camera-Raw image. Photoshop itself supports a third type of "raw" file that has nothing whatsoever to do with camera raw or VueScan raw. So, know your types of "raw."

VueScan can also save as DNG. But this is nothing more than putting a DNG wrapper around a TIFF.

If Aperture is able to open a scanner file, it's because it's a TIFF or JPEG (even if it's called "raw").

Even if you could make a scanner output raw sensor data, there is no point. You are not recording a scene; you are recording a recording of a scene, second generation, one step removed from reality. Unlike when you shoot with a digital camera, when you scan there is no access to original white balance data or exposure data, because you're "shooting" a piece of paper (or film), not a real scene. Opening a scan in Aperture is like opening a TIFF or JPEG, not a camera Raw.

Short answer: You can only get camera Raw files from cameras. Never from scanners.

What network23 said. Scanning only captures all the loss of film, processing, printing etc. from previously captured film images. You can in no way glean the benefits of RAW capture from film scans; just scan in appropriate resolution for the source image and save as TIFF.

Note that scanning is very slow, extremely time consuming, so many of the review/cull functions so quickly performed on DSLR pix in Aperture are performed manually very slowly on a real light table prior to scanning. Contrast/exposure and similar edits are done during scanning by the scanning software. Aperture's main function for scans is just keywording and adding them to the Aperture Library.

It sounds to me like your needs might best be met by an Epson V700 scanner. We recently discussed scanner choices on an Adobe Photography thread:
http://www.adobeforums.com/webx/.3c0623db/0

-Allen Wicks

The Vuescan RAW format is recognized by Adobe Lightroom but not by Apple Aperture 2. See Vuescan website (www.hamrick.com). I tried it with a Canon 8800F scanner and film negatives. The RAW output can be manipulated much better than TIFF files. - The question is what is "RAW" then really?

Message was edited by: achterblad

Aperture 2 has a bug that does not display 16 bit 100mb + tiff images. These are typically the high quality images output by a film scanner. I have 1000's of scanned images that are having problems in Aperture 2. These were all perfectly fine in Aperture 1.5. The bug seems to effect images randomly and always to images with adjustments made in Aperture. Of course Aperture is lossless so this bug has not corrupted the image. It opens fine in CS3. Apple will need to come out with an update to fix this. I'm looking out for it, so are a lot of other folks that work with large 16 bit Tiffs. Seems like Aperture 2 is really focused on the new hobby class of prosumers and not Pros.