NTSC vs PAL in HD -- editing and shooting question.

I've heard different answers on this question and all my Googling has resulted in nothing but more confusion, so I'm hoping someone in here who truly knows the answer to this can tell me.

I am based in Los Angeles, but am partnering up on a big project with some people who are based in Europe. The project we are shooting is going to be shot in New Zealand and we want to shoot it in HD. When we are done, we are planning on having both parties split up the footage and the European crew will edit half of it on FCP there in Europe, while my crew here in the U.S. will edit the other half on FCP here in the U.S.

Obviously, European TV and video are all PAL based and here in the U.S. it's all NTSC. My question is deceptively simple: are we going to have a problem if all the footage is shot on the same camera?

I typically use Canon HD video cameras (the A-1 and the HV20) that were purchased here in the U.S. to do my shooting. I would like to take these cameras on the trip and shoot with them, but I also want the footage I shoot to be compatible with my partner's PAL-based FCP system. I have heard that there is no such a thing as NTSC HD or PAL HD and that HD is just HD regardless of the country it's in. Is that true? Could I rent an HD camera in Europe and shoot stuff with it there and then bring the resulting tapes back here to the U.S. and play them on my U.S.-purchased HD cameras and decks and load it into my current FCP setup in L.A. without any problem? And would my partners be able to do the vice-versa (i.e. will my HD footage play and load on their HD cameras that were purchased in Europe?)

I would love to know if anyone has an answer to this. So far I've heard a lot of speculation and conjecture and no one I've talked to definitively seems to know.

Many thanks if anyone does.

G5, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Feb 27, 2008 10:31 PM

Reply
11 replies

Feb 27, 2008 11:42 PM in response to Doug Van_Doren

First off there is a such a thing as PAL HD and NTSC HD. PAL HD is 50i and 25p...NTSC HD is 60i, 30p and 24p. Second, there is no such thing as a PAL FCP system. ALL FCP systems edit NTSC and PAL.

And yes, there will be issues with shooting NTSC for PAL and PAL for NTSC and trying to mix formats. Standards Converter from www.nattress.com solves a few of these issues, but not all of them.

I don't envy you in this project.

Shane

User uploaded file

Feb 27, 2008 11:50 PM in response to Doug Van_Doren

Doug Van_Doren wrote:
I have heard that there is no such a thing as NTSC HD or PAL HD and that HD is just HD regardless of the country it's in. Is that true?


Yes, thankfully. HD is HD no matter what country you're in. However, some manufacturers offer different cameras to different markets so make sure that the camera in question is available in Europe and that it is identical.

Feb 27, 2008 11:59 PM in response to Doug Van_Doren

I have heard that there is no such a thing as NTSC HD or PAL HD and that HD is just HD regardless of the country it's in. Is that true?


Yes, its true. As far as "definition" goes, there is no difference between a 1080 image shot in a PAL region and a 1080 image shot in an NTSC region. However, which frame rate you intend to shoot at eg 50i / 60i, 25p / 30p etc will certainly make a difference. Most consumer level HD camera's are restricted depending upon the electrical frequency of the market region they are being sold in. If your camera was purchased in a 60Hz ( NTSC ) region then its likely your camera will only support 60i, 30p 24p etc. If its purchased in a 50Hz (PAL) region then it's likely to only support 50i, 25p etc.
Generally it is only the higher end pro camera's that support switching between systems ... neither the HV20 nor the XH-A1 have this capability.

Could I rent an HD camera in Europe and shoot stuff with it there and then bring the resulting tapes back here to the U.S. and play them on my U.S.-purchased HD cameras and decks and load it into my current FCP setup in L.A. without any problem?


Well that would depend on what camera you rented as compared to what your current setup is ... what's your current setup and what do you have in mind to rent?

Feb 28, 2008 10:36 AM in response to Shane Ross

[quote]Second, there is no such thing as a PAL FCP system. ALL FCP systems edit NTSC and PAL.[/quote]

Right, that I know but what I meant was, if you have your system set up for NTSC and then you have to switch it over to PAL, even if you have a deck that plays PAL, it can cause problems, can't it? I've never had to switch back and forth before but I'm guessing it might be tricky and lead to headaches.

I've tried to switch back and forth between HD and SD settings within the same FCP program on a single machine and that causes nightmare problems. I would assume the sam could be said for switching between PAL and NTSC on the same system. Or am I mistaken in that?

Feb 28, 2008 11:32 AM in response to Doug Van_Doren

For what it's worth, I go back and forth between PAL and NTSC in FCP 5.1.4 frequently. The only hassle is forgetting to change the sequence settings. I monitor it through a DSR 11 deck that I can switch between formats, and the monitor is multi system as well.

A side note - I received an HDV 1080i25 tape shot on a Sony camera purchased in Europe, and since I didn't have a deck, captured it via a Kona card from a consumer Sony HDV camera purchased in USA that I assume records at 30fps, and had no problems. It read the tape just fine. You can't do that with SD PAL and NTSC.

Roland

Message was edited by: Roland Walter

Feb 28, 2008 11:55 AM in response to Doug Van_Doren

If your just talking about editing. Then shoot in whatever format the finishing station (FCP system) is setup up for. The other FCP system can edit in ether. So say your usually work in NTSC but it will be finished in PAL. You work in PAL (you really only need canvas viewer to make edit decisions) and send the XML of the sequences your working on to the finishing station. Master in PAL and then just do a simple format conversion to get you NTSC masters. Or the other way around if you choose.

You might think about who's going to do the ingest. Could make sense to have one ingest and then send hard drives with media and project files to the other edit station. So that all the media can be re-linked for the finale output.

o| TonyTony |o

Feb 28, 2008 2:13 PM in response to The TonyTony

The plan is that they are going to edit their version of the footage on their Macs in Europe and I am going to edit my own version of the same footage here on my Macs in the U.S.

We're just trying to figure out what HD format the original footage should be shot in, that's all, so taht we can all use it on both sides of the pond with minimal headaches.

They have an NTSC system there in London where they are and can read NTSC. I don't have the same capability here to do PAL, which is why I am leaning toward recommending that we shoot the whole project in 60i NTSC HD, because it seems that will allow both sides to edit the resulting footage on their respective systems without too much trouble.

Since they have NTSC equipment and I don't have PAL equipment, is that a fair assessment?

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NTSC vs PAL in HD -- editing and shooting question.

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