FCP Training Schools vs Avid Symphony (Burbank)

Question

Level 1

16 points

FCP Training Schools vs Avid Symphony (Burbank)

So I got their catalog - seems cool. (Avid) and offer Pro Tools and FCP, but FCP is under Graphics more than editing.

Well I got the brochure the other day from Avid Symphony, it seems cool. It seems a bit pricey, but only if you had no work, which right this second is the case for me. Score one trailer and all is well, but its been a while.

Anyway, I spoke to them and I do have a few questions, while I believe him that learning FCP might not get you a job at WB, isn't Avid losing money? I also looked at the schedule and I don't see any FCP added to the Avid training, which I was lead to believe you got both. It seems that FCP is part of the MEDIA/GRAPHICS package and one friend of mine said, "if you know AE...you can get work..."

Of course, they have a PT course too. They claim 80% placement, this year 90%. Grain of salt taken.

Now, that being said, what does one really have to do? I mean, I have scored trailers, produced CD's, music supervised, strong business background as well. So, really just need to try and sort through all of this. For example, wasn't "No Country For Old Men" done on FCP? Is there a cheaper alternative? I mean, sure, you could get the LYNDA.COM training files for a year for $300 bucks, and then maybe join the Los Angeles Final Cut Group, but am wondering if there is a cheaper alternative, just to get some money in the door, nor wasting it away on what to a very small percent, could be a dying market (Avid) as computers get stronger, portable.

Are there any good alternatives, schools and where the connections are legit (and with Budgets as one would think Avid=Project=Budget=paid).

Is there a GOOD FCP training program with some placement? Or helps you build a reel with editing, motion, AE, and perhaps some educational/pbs/corporate films first?

I'm also hopeful that having some composing skills and a strong PC/MAC background (EE Major), certified in Computer Science as well, and music training, that perhaps as an editor, I could work well and see more work as I could jell with Music Sup/Producer/Composer, or wear two of those hats while editing?

I guess I'm looking into a FCP school now and to see if I could obtain a project from that (I see listings for FCP editors all the time at a few sites - feel free to add some here), and once some more $$$$ started to come in, then it wouldn't feel as though I was spending everything just on Avid as I do have some skepticism on it. Editors, please feel free to chime in if I am wrong. Not trying to start a flame war, but it seems knowing both is good - and I have been in Avid bays on quite a few projects, as well as at TODD/AO, just looking for the best skills and sometimes I think AE, MOTION,FC, would be helpful.

Thanks

Mac Pro x 2, Mac Book Pro 2.2 2 GB, Mac OS X (10.4.10), All of them are wonderful

Posted on Mar 1, 2008 1:01 AM

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Answer 1

Johnny99

Level 1

0 points

Mar 1, 2008 1:31 AM in response to Hi I'm A Mac

Don't know how it works in Los Angeles but in my neck of the woods getting a job in media is done in one of three ways.
Option 1: Spend a fortune & all your spare time learning the skills you need so that someone starts you on the bottom rung of the ladder.
Option 2: Be in the right place at the right time (commonly referred to as being lucky)
Option 3: By far and away the most common way into media. It's got nothing to do with what you know it's all about who you know. How many of us have seen an absolute idiot in the workplace only to discover they are some distant relative of the boss.
So for most of us option 1 is the only way the door will open but having to spend a fortune on all the equipment you need so you can learn the skills required means that this option really isnt an option at all for some people. But i can't stress enough having all the certificates of excellence from learning establishments will mean nothing if that job you want is also the job the boss's nephew wants. So what i did was instead of spending a fortune doing a course that doesnt guarantee a job at the end of it, I used half of what the course fee would have been & gave it to a production house to take me on as an intern. Maybe not the best way but I learned working in a real world setting & had a job at the end of it.
Good Luck

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Answer 2

Hi I'm A Mac Author

Level 1

16 points

Mar 3, 2008 1:31 PM in response to Johnny99

Well am trying to get some feedback from students who went there - appreciate it.
They also teach FCP as well so you understand both.

Like the idea of getting an agent if you're good enough. WIth a background in scoring, computer science, editing (some), Music Supervision, and several producing CD's, I should have some edge.

Anyone here attend?

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Answer 3

Hi I'm A Mac Author

Level 1

16 points

Mar 3, 2008 2:05 PM in response to Hi I'm A Mac

Here is my rant from Avid forum:

(cut)

Did some research, not that many hits on training or vs. FCP that are recent.

Anyway, some background,
• Proficient with PC/MAC
• Can build PC's, heck even a hack n tosh
• EE Background
• Familiar with Pro Tools, Avid, Giga, Nuendo, Cubase
• Music Supervisor
• Business Affairs
• Music Licensing for FF/TV
• Numerous years at major label in both Director A&R and Music Sound Tracks
• Have worked with editors
• FCP experience (motion, et-cetera)
• Photoshop, and Adobe / Macro media suites.
• Beta tester for Giga Studio, Sony
• Content creator for Sony Acid (Loop Libraries)
• Worked in Avid edit bay

So, looked into Avid training, spoke with Avid Symphony in Burbank, he's schpeal was that you won't get a job at WB learning FCP, which is probably true. However, I do see a lot of "editors needed FCP" from a lot of media boards, problem is, I bet many of these are deffered payment, or no budget at all.

My main questions are:
• Has anyone attended Avid Symphony in Burbank?
• How true do you think the job placement is? Was told its about 80% with this year being 90%, was also told (w/ grain of salt), if you pass Avid test, they get you an agent, true or not?
• Do you see the market increasing for editors these days? My predictions are, like the music business, the tv business will take a hit once everyone has piped in fiber and indie's start producing TV shows. Of course, at first, many will stink, but those that have had releases, or some formal training will see this as an opportunity and will release great productions as we, the consumer, have thousands of channels to search from (on-line), where does this leave us? On paper, wouldn't most be using FCP?
• Really trying to get a handle on how important a degree from Avid Symphony would be before spending 30K. I ask as if you look at PT LE, its still limited in working for picture and surround and now some FOLEY people who still use it, yet talk about Nuendo, yet, the point is, yes, they still use LE at home, whether frustrated or not.

I really want to get some training, and apparently, this school is supposed to offer FCP in their program but in looking at their course, I don't see it listed anywhere in AVID program but only in the media and effects training which is another 20K. Which I also believe to be growing market (media effects = Avid, FCP, Motion, Photoshop and more importantly, AE), just wish I could get AVID and FCP training in one program and want to go with the best as well as hear from students that actually got work/placement after going there. (or any school).

Thanks

(end rant)

Thanks

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Answer 4

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Mar 3, 2008 3:10 PM in response to Hi I'm A Mac

• Has anyone attended Avid Symphony in Burbank?

Yes.

• How true do you think the job placement is? Was told its about 80% with this year being 90%, was also told (w/ grain of salt), if you pass Avid test, they get you an agent, true or not?

There is NO job placement thru Video Symphony (not Avid Symphony). They train you...that's it. YOU have to know who to call to look for work. And when people look for assistant editors, training and certification is always a good thing. I was lucky in my class in that I was partnered with an editor making the change from a D-Vision to Avid. We hit it off and he hired me on his next show.

No, they do NOT get you an agent. Agents for editor are really limited to those editors who have already made it and are BIG, like Michael Kahn. Beginning editors and assistants do not get agents.

• Do you see the market increasing for editors these days?

Yes. There are 500 cable stations...and still corporate videos that need doing. And have you seen the amount of INFOMERCIALS out there? PLENTY of work.

On paper, wouldn't most be using FCP?

IN reality many of us are using FCP. I am using it now...history channel series. FOX just switched from AVID to FCP...indy features and TV shows. FCP is bigger than you think...and are being told. If you want to work in this town, I'd recommend learning BOTH. I know both and find work all the time. I am still finding myself in front of an Avid on occasion, while currently I am in front of FCP.

• Really trying to get a handle on how important a degree from Avid Symphony would be before spending 30K.

$30,000!??! What the heck? I took an Avid Bootcamp...four days of assisting and editing classes. 8 hour days. Cost $1200....back in 1996. But still, inflation cannot account for that price increase.

Avid class will teach you how to use the tool...that's it. Producers do not hire people because they have a certificate stating they can use this tool. They hire people who are creative, who can tell a good story..who have a reel to PROVE that they can tell a good story. But that certificate will get you assisting work. But $30K? Just to get assisting work? Are you sure about those numbers?

Shane

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Answer 5

Danny_boy

Level 4

1,125 points

Mar 4, 2008 12:47 AM in response to Hi I'm A Mac

First off the school is called Video Symphony. Avid Symphony is a high end editing and finishing system made by Avid.

Second, my two cents...

I went there, did the Avid professional program, and came out very satisfied. It was about $22k when I did the program. As far as training facilities. VS is the best of the best for Avid and one of the best for Pro Tools. They have consistently been ranked as the top Avid training facility in the world. The motion graphics program is so-so.

When I did the Avid program one FCP class was included in the program. It has changed a lot since then (for the better I have to say). They have added a lot of classes and improved many of the older ones. I had already been editing for about 6 or 7 years before I went to VS, so I had a slightly different career path than many students. I look at my VS training as the equivalent of having gone to grad school. I have a BA from a J school, so add that to my years of editing before attending VS and I feel that I had a strong background with storytelling. What VS gave me was a huge leap forward in my technical skills.

What you get out of VS is an education about the craft of editing. It is geared towards the Hollywood model of post-production, therefore it is extremely Avid-centric. However, as many other editors will tell you, if you can cut on an Avid you can easily make the switch to FCP and vice-versa.

As far as placement, I've never needed it and many others that took classes at VS can say the same. The big reason for that is that the school teaches you the importance of networking in this business. Often you'll be sitting in a class with an industry pro that is there to refresh skills or learn new ones. You make connections pretty fast there. If you are serious about pursuing editing for a career, then you really should consider going to VS.

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Answer 6

Danny_boy

Level 4

1,125 points

Mar 4, 2008 12:52 AM in response to Shane Ross

Shane,

VS does have a job placement department. It is only available to people that have gone through one of the career programs.

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Answer 7

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Mar 4, 2008 7:14 AM in response to Danny_boy

Wow...things changed since I went there. $22k? Wow. And a job placement program. Interesting...and cool.

Shane

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Answer 8

Hi I'm A Mac Author

Level 1

16 points

Mar 11, 2008 11:57 PM in response to Danny_boy

Cool, do you need any assistant editors with experience with music, (composition), foley, sound design? Am moving to Burbank anyway (grin).

Will work for free if need be, (really, if part time, will take it, moving there in April).

Anyway, what type of salary range do you think is possible with a program such as this? The highest I ever made was about $200 an hour for FF trailers (composing) and know it won't pay that much, but hey, I like editing just as much and in time will get back into the music end of things.

Thanks.

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Answer 9

Hi I'm A Mac Author

Level 1

16 points

Mar 13, 2008 10:28 PM in response to Hi I'm A Mac

So has anyone here that went there actually received work (in their mind) that they can say they got from going there (training) or any other program? FCP or Avid? They where saying as a student, you get something MUCH better than Avid Xpress for $300? That is supposed to blow Xpress away, can't remember the name.

Advice on other training (especially reality experience) needed, FCP is fine with me as well (to get feet wet). Have FCP and a few monitors, need a deck, and a AV TV. (and of course, Giga Studio, Mics, Mixer, nice gear).

Thanks for any and all advice/tips!

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Answer 10

Danny_boy

Level 4

1,125 points

Mar 14, 2008 3:58 AM in response to Hi I'm A Mac

What exactly is the answer you're looking for? Did I get work as a direct result of going to VS? No, but that doesn't apply to everyone. I had been editing for six or seven years before going to VS, so I didn't really need help finding gigs. Also they tend to place people in entry level jobs like Assistant Editor gigs, that would have lead to a big pay cut for me.

What is your background? Have you worked in this industry before? Are you in high school? What is your goal?

Have you actually talked to the admissions department at VS? Because if you have, and you listened to what they were saying to you, you would have far less questions than you do right now.

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Answer 11

Hi I'm A Mac Author

Level 1

16 points

Mar 17, 2008 5:29 PM in response to Danny_boy

Yes I did talk to them and he made mention of starting at $7000 per month (low end), errr, hello?
That's toward the upper end IMHO.

As a pro, my background (with some editing) has been Music Supervision, A&R, as well as post and composing for Feature Film trailers - so I am a bit skewed with the numbers both $$$ and placement wise (90%+).

While I have made great salary both in business end of ent. business and more so in composing, as well as content developer for Giga Studio (also beta tester for MAC version coming soon) and Sony's Acid, I can't help but notice that post (editors) far out weigh post for audio work.

I am looking for both gigs and experience in editing - I will be living in Burbank soon and know that's where all the gigs are and for me, I would take a paycut to earn my way up, be it digitizing, or logging, (which admissions said could be $35 an hour), another skeptical comment (as surely this is not true).

For now I am talking with some friends who are full time Music Supervisors (2004-present), Foley (Universal) as well as a producer friend (Reality Television) and the goal is to gain some editing skills, get more pro-active in the business while increasing my composing skills/rig with better samples, updated reel. I suppose the ideal situation would be with a production company that could use both my Music Supervision Soundtrack Experience (10+ year), Music Licensing, some editing (increased with school), Composing for Feature Film and DVD (quite a few credits), then get an agent.

Also, FWIW, I have the word out that I would take a free gig (part time) in the Burbank area in order to gain more experience - will see if I can get a gig, then if things worked out, I could use some of my talents, hopefully gaining FULL TIME/PAID, then when needed, school at night.

I am also getting married soon so would appreciate any help that anyone could give me and would send a resume to anyone who ask's.

Will update when I find out more - e.g. spoke with Music Sup friend today - who may be looking for more employee's- its just that in the music business, composing/editing in my opinion, are the future, especially when we get the fiber pipe into all the homes - I think a Final Cut program would be very helpful - I also have a goal that after we get married and move to our new place in Burbank, I will commit to reading the FINAL CUT books from START to FINISH as well as some LYNDA.com training, then, if I can't get work (with a composer/editor reel), I also plan on making a documentary (composer/editor/producer), try again, then purhaps school if none of the above works. Of course, should I get hired and they wanted to send me to school, then so be it.

Lastly, (for now anyway), my work ethic has always been first to arrive (7:30AM), last to leave (sometimes at 10:00-11:00PM) when I worked in a Music Supervisor capacity and at a full HD Pro Tools rig (x 3 studios) and I would glady do a night shift (LOG/DIGITIZE) or whatever it takes to get in the door.

Thanks guys.

The reason I have some questions is due to the fact that some speak highly of the school, yet the numbers (pay rate entry) don't add up. Perhaps you could post some numbers?

Asst. Editor Reality?
Asst. Editor Digitize/Logger
Asst Editor FF (MAJOR DISTRIBUTOR)
Editor - all the above

My angle is that I can also "compose", "Sound Design" and "Music Supervise" so adding some editing should increase my worth a little, if not a bit more.

I do, DO thank you and all for anyone that gives me a chance/or feedback.

Thank you again.

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