Cache error when booting OS 9 #2

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Cache error when booting OS 9 #2

Somehow this original question got an "answered" attribute - it is not.

Computer: G4 Quicksilver 800 MHz dual, stock CPU and Motherboard.
On booting into OS 9 a message appears that cache errors were detected during RAM check. " Contact dealer" it says.
No such message comes up when booting Tiger OS.
I assume that the message refers to the CPU cache. I am hesitating to take action when an apparently severe malfunction is reported by one OS and not the other. Who can shed some light on this issue?

Hans

PM G4/Digital Audio 1GHz upgrade 1.5GB RAM-ATA 133- SCSI Scanner, Mac OS 9.2.2 and 10.4.11 DSL 16k

Posted on Mar 3, 2008 4:55 PM

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Answer 1

BDAqua

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250,259 points

Mar 3, 2008 7:28 PM in response to Hans777

Just a theory here, but I'll toss it out for your perusal...

Different OSes check for different things, like when OS9 had marginal RAM, it would sometimes report it, sometimes not, but with the introduction of OSX the machine would either continually KP, or refuse to boot at all with the same exact RAM in it.

So I'm thinkin' that OS9 sees the bad Cache and warns you, OSX simply disables it, but System Profiler may say something.

Hey, I remember, it was CHUD tools that allowed Cache turning off/on...

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/8506

http://developer.apple.com/tools/download/

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Answer 2

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 4, 2008 4:45 PM in response to BDAqua

BDAqua,

thanks for the links. I'll check what ASP sees this Wednesday. On that same QS we had a Sata disk failure reported by DW ( new Barracuda )which led to detecting the cache error. Fallback to Panther from Tiger resulted.

Hans

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Answer 3

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 5, 2008 3:04 PM in response to BDAqua

Hi,
this is the profiler data of OS 9.2.2

Arbeitsspeicher: 1.50 GB
Freie RAM-Steckplätze: 0 ()
PC133 CL2
Position Größe Speichertyp
DIMM0/J21 512 MB SDRAM
DIMM1/J22 512 MB SDRAM
DIMM2/J23 512 MB SDRAM
L2-Cache: 256 KB
L3-Cache:
Hardwareübersicht
Geräte-ID: 406
Modellname: Power Mac G4
Tastaturtyp: Apple Pro Keyboard - ISO
Prozessor: PowerPC G4
Geschwindigkeit: 800 MHz
Prozessoren: 2
Nanokernel Version: 2.27
Nanokernel Pool Erweiterungen: 13
Vom Nanokernel verwaltete Prozessoren:2
uni-n: 17
Produktionsinformation
ROM Revision: $77D.45F6
Boot ROM Version: $0004.25f1
Mac OS ROM Version: 8.7
Seriennummer: CK134HQ8-KSD-ff11
---------------------------------------------

and this is the same of OS 10.4.11:
Hardware:

Hardwareuebersicht:

Computername: Power Mac G4
Computermodell: PowerMac3,5
CPU-Typ: PowerPC G4 (2.1)
Anzahl der CPUs: 2
CPU-Geschwindigkeit: 800 MHz
L2-Cache (pro CPU): 256 KB
Speicher: 1.5 GB
Busgeschwindigkeit: 133 MHz
Boot-ROM-Version: 4.2.5f1
Seriennummer: CK134HQ8KSD

Diagnose:

Selbsttest beim Einschalten:

Zuletzt ausgefuehrt: 05.03.2008 19:22
Ergebnis: Fehlgeschlagen
* Fehlerart: Externer Cache !!!
----------------------------------
It seems that both OS get the same error. While OS 9 reports it on startup Os 10 continues booting and saves the Diagnosis info.

The cache it refers to would not be the CPU cache would it? It says external cache.
What do I do for a remedy?

Hans

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Answer 4

Mar 5, 2008 3:12 PM in response to Hans777

Hm. Can you at least get to the desktop? If not, try starting up with extensions off (apple+shift) when you boot up. I'm not sure if that'll let you boot in. If that doesn't work, try removing all but one of your RAM sticks (if one of them is the original, keep that one in). If it still doesn't work, try booting from a CD, or something.

If you manage to boot into OS 9, open the memory control panel while holding command+option; then select the option to disable memory startup tests. That should presumably do it.

Unfortunately you can't open the memory control panel using the Classic Environment through OS X, so that's not an option.

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Answer 5

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 5, 2008 3:21 PM in response to Dan-Lempesis-Omega

Thanks Dan,

I checked the QS specs:

Order no. M8361LL/A
Processor Dual 800-MHz PowerPC G4
On-chip cache 256K L2 at 800 MHz per processor
Backside cache 2MB L3 at 200 MHz per processor

No L3 backside cache is reported in both OS but it should read 2MB for each CPU - is that correct?

Hans

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Answer 6

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 5, 2008 3:41 PM in response to Hans777

Addition:

both OS are booting but I have the impression that the machine is not really flying.

Hans

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Answer 7

BDAqua

Level 10

250,259 points

Mar 5, 2008 4:01 PM in response to Hans777

No L3 backside cache is reported in both OS but it should read 2MB for each CPU - is that correct?

Yes, that's what I thought we'd find in the SysProfiler, without L3 it'll be perform about like a 400MHz machine... worse in some areas.

Have you tried CHUD yet, I'm guessing the L3 on #2 CPU is gone.

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Answer 8

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 5, 2008 4:34 PM in response to BDAqua

BDAqua,

I am back home now. Took all afternoon to put in a new Sata disk in the QS and upgrade to 10.4.11 again at my daughter's. I am glad we have nailed the problem as being L3 missing. Can you explain a bit what benefit would result from trying CHUD?
Also I had pulled the CPU two months ago and carefully reseated it. Is there a protocol somewhere in 10 that would have been saved continously? As we upgraded it should still be there from Panther. I'd like to know when the L3 disappeared. I think we shall not tolerate a degraded system. One way or the other the hardware has to be fixed. I suppose the L3 is a chip on the CPU board.

Hans

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Answer 9

BDAqua

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250,259 points

Mar 5, 2008 4:51 PM in response to Hans777

Can you explain a bit what benefit would result from trying CHUD?

I can't remember exactly, but it gives you the choice of shutting off one CPU, (which made an MDD/FW800 and an MDD/867 both at least useable, and on my DP/800 I think
I turned one of the Caches OFF to make it stable and faster(?).

Is there a protocol somewhere in 10 that would have been saved continously? As we upgraded it should still be there from Panther. I'd like to know when the L3 disappeared.

Might try launching Console and seeing if there are some archived system.logs

I think we shall not tolerate a degraded system. One way or the other the hardware has to be fixed. I suppose the L3 is a chip on the CPU board.

Yep chips... are you good enough to replace those?

I actually sold my DP/800 module and put in a Giga Designs DP/1.467 in it years ago.

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Answer 10

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 5, 2008 5:09 PM in response to BDAqua

I have to explain that my daughter had not booted into OS9 ever. I did - just a few days ago and that's what brought the problem that may have been there for a long time into daylight.
Os 9 ripe for the museum? Not for me!

Yep chips... are you good enough to replace those?

Well,- I'm not too clumsy when handling a soldering iron. I hate SMD though. I'll take a look - but only if it turns out that the problem began when I pulled the CPU. A CPU upgrade is also an option.

Hans

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Answer 11

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 6, 2008 4:57 AM in response to Hans777

On further thought:
I mentioned a hard drive problem in an earlier post where DiskWarrior reported to be unable to repair the directory due to disk problems. It seems strange that two different hardware problems would happen almost at the same time. I know that DW is circumventing the Finder with it's own boot routines. Could it be that the missing L3 cache might fool DW into thinking the drive surface is damaged?

Anyway I don't have the Apple Hardware Test software and the download link is broken which I addressed in another topic. I would be very grateful if I could get a hold of the AHT.

I am aware that this topic is moving out of range of the OS 9 category. I shall shortly move it to the G4 category.

Hans

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Answer 12

BDAqua

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Mar 6, 2008 8:05 AM in response to Hans777

Could it be that the missing L3 cache might fool DW into thinking the drive surface is damaged?

I don't think so, but I consider it likely that booting off CD may be enough power diff to have the L3 enabled but flaky.

One nearly un-bootable machine I had would work almost fine, if I waited to turn the Caches on until all the power fluctuations settled down.

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Answer 13

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 6, 2008 4:36 PM in response to BDAqua

Thanks, BDAqua.
I ordered a Sonnet 1.7 GHz CPU upgrade. When it arrives I shall leave it unopened when trying to fix the CPU board. If I succeed I could return it. I'll report.

Hans

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Answer 14

Hans777 Author

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445 points

Mar 19, 2008 3:29 PM in response to Hans777

Well,
reseating the dual CPU and inspecting the board did not solve the issue. In the meantime AHT is back for download. It also reported the bad cache. Thus a 1.8 GHz Sonnet was successfully installed.

Hans

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Answer 15

BDAqua

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Mar 19, 2008 4:23 PM in response to Hans777

Good News! 🙂

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