10 Replies Latest reply: Apr 22, 2008 1:53 PM by mbryant
Reuben Feffer Level 2 Level 2 (195 points)
Hi,

Has anyone else noticed this? iPhoto '08 seems to automatically alter the ColorSync Profile of any photos you import into it.

I have a Canon compact camera. Normally the ColorSync Profile in photos it takes shows up as sRGB IEC61966-2.1 in Preview 4.1 However, as soon as they've been imported into iPhoto, their ColorSync Profiles change to Camera RGB Profile.

Is this normal? How is Camera RGB Profile different to sRGB IEC61966-2.1? I'm worried that iPhoto is/has destroyed useful data in all of my photo files.

 iMac 17" 2 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo, 2 GB RAM, 250 GB Hard Drive, Mac OS X (10.5.2),  16 GB iPod Touch  40 GB Apple TV
  • 1. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (123,800 points)
    Rueben

    The answer hasn't changed since we posted in your last thread here:

    http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6642774&#6642774

    They are virtually the same thing, the difference is that as the sRGB profile was created by MS and HP it has a Gamma Setting of 2.2 - standard on Windows Machines. The Camera RGB profile is only seen on Macs. It's identical to the sRGB profile but has a gamma of 1.8, (standard on Macs). I've yet to notice a difference between the two.


    Regards

    TD
  • 2. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Reuben Feffer Level 2 Level 2 (195 points)
    Ok thanks. But, what if the Mac I'm using has its display set to Gamma 2.2? Will iPhoto still turn an sRGB IEC61966-2.1 into a Camera RGB Profile? That doesn't sound good to me. Do you really want it embedding a gamma of 1.8 into the photos when both your camera and your display are using a gamma of 2.2?
  • 3. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Reuben Feffer Level 2 Level 2 (195 points)
    Apple state:

    "If the image contains no profile and this option (embed a ColorSync profile when importing a photo) is selected, IPhoto will normally embed a Camera RGB profile image"

    "If an image already contains an embedded profile, iPhoto will not overwrite it"

    My images already DO have a profile, an sRGB IEC61966-2.1 one, but iPhoto is still changing the profiles to a Camera RGB Profile. It shouldn't do this, should it?
  • 4. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Old Toad Level 10 Level 10 (115,680 points)
    Reuben:

    How are you checking for the profile? In my experience that iPhoto only adds the profile to edited versions of the photo or to portrait photos from cameras that have the auto-rotate option (because iPhoto creates a rotated version of it upon import). If you use the ColorSync Utility to compare the Camera RGB to the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile you'll see there's very little difference. I wouldn't worry about it. If it was assigning the Adobe RGB profile then that would be a reason for concern.



    TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.

    I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 08 libraries and Leopard. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.
  • 5. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Reuben Feffer Level 2 Level 2 (195 points)
    I'm just checking for the profile using Preview, by manually opening the individual JPG files in it.

    I'm still concerned because this is something that Apple say iPhoto is designed NOT to do, but it is. It's altering the colour profiles of every single photo imported into it, which it shouldn't, because these photos already have an sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile.
  • 6. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Terence Devlin Level 10 Level 10 (123,800 points)
    I'm just checking for the profile using Preview, by manually opening the individual JPG files in it.


    Where are the files? In the iPhoto Package File? Inside the Originals or the Modified folder?

    How do you know the files already have the sRGB profile?

    You know, you can just not use the application, it's not compulsory.

    Regards

    TD
  • 7. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Reuben Feffer Level 2 Level 2 (195 points)
    Hi,

    Ok, I'll explain more clearly.

    If I read the JPG files straight off my SD Memory Card in the finder, and open those JPGs in Preview.app I can see they have a ColorSync Profile by looking at the General Info Inspector.

    If I get iPhoto to import the JPGs files into its Library, and then open up the iPhoto Library package, go to the Originals folder, and open any of those files in Preview.app, I can see they that they call now have a ColorSync Profile of Camera RGB Profile.
  • 8. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    mbryant Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I am having a very similar problem, although I won't pretend I really understand all of this (or even much of it). I am shooting with a Canon PowerShot S5 IS, which uses the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color profile. I know that is what it is assigning to the photos, because I can drag the file from the camera's card to my desktop and then load it into Photoshop Elements and check the photo info there.

    I recently sent a batch of photos to a printshop to print on canvas. They reported that they had to assign color profiles to the photos themselves because the photos all imported into their Photoshop CS3 with a color space of "camera RGB," which Photoshop would not recognize. So my prints were at the mercy of the print shop's judgement as to what color profile looked best.

    After some experimenting, here is what I see. If I have "Add ColorSync Profile" checked in iPhoto preferences, iPhoto replaces the sRGB tag with the generic camera RGB tag, even though the camera did initially tag the photos with the sRGB. If I don't have that option checked in preferences, iPhoto retains the sRGB tag, but ONLY UNTIL I DO ANY EDITING in iPhoto. If I edit the photo, it again replaces the sRGB tag with the camera RGB tag.

    I don't know how to resolve this so that I can print from my vast library of photos stored in iPhoto and still have some control over the color. I would love to hear from anyone who understands this better than I. I don't believe I have any software that will allow me to assign another color profile to a photo, and don't really want to lay out the big bucks for the professional version of Photoshop.
  • 9. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    Old Toad Level 10 Level 10 (115,680 points)
    If you compare the camera RGB profile with the sRGB or sRGB IEC61966-2.1 with ColorSync you'll find that they are very similar and that the three could be interchanged without issue. if you're concerned about the camera RGB profile, search for it and remove it from the HD (or just zip it and delete the unzipped version). Then it would not be available to be used by iPhoto.

    There is an Applescript script to assign the sRGB IEC61966-2.1 to any file or folder of files dropped on it. It's not the most preferable way to change profiles. That would be to convert to the profile. That can be done with ColorSync but will have to be done one file at a time. You could try a photo with both ways to see if either is preferable over the other. You can get the script at Toad's Cellar.

    Have you found that the camera RGB profile prints unsatisfactorily when compared to the sRGB profile?



    TIP: For insurance against the iPhoto database corruption that many users have experienced I recommend making a backup copy of the Library6.iPhoto (iPhoto.Library for iPhoto 5 and earlier) database file and keep it current. If problems crop up where iPhoto suddenly can't see any photos or thinks there are no photos in the library, replacing the working Library6.iPhoto file with the backup will often get the library back. By keeping it current I mean backup after each import and/or any serious editing or work on books, slideshows, calendars, cards, etc. That insures that if a problem pops up and you do need to replace the database file, you'll retain all those efforts. It doesn't take long to make the backup and it's good insurance.

    I've created an Automator workflow application (requires Tiger), iPhoto dB File Backup, that will copy the selected Library6.iPhoto file from your iPhoto Library folder to the Pictures folder, replacing any previous version of it. It's compatible with iPhoto 6 and 7 libraries and Tiger and Leopard. iPhoto does not have to be closed to run the application, just idle. You can download it at Toad's Cellar. Be sure to read the Read Me pdf file.
  • 10. Re: iPhoto Changes sRGB IEC61966-2.1 Into Camera RGB Profile
    mbryant Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thanks for the info on how to replace the color profile tag on an image. That will be useful.

    My problem is not so much that the camera RGB profile is different from the sRGB profile, but that when I send off to have canvas prints made the printer loads the image into his software and it tells him that it doesn't know what to do with the camera RGB profile. So the printer has to pick another profile to apply to the photo. I just received a batch of half a dozen back from the printer and most of them had noticeable color shifts, two of them dramatically so.

    For now I think I will resolve the problem by upgrading to Aperture. It will easily import my iPhoto library, will let me tweak the colors and exposures as necessary, and by default assigns an sRGB IEC61966-2.1 color profile tag to any photo I export for printing.