Pismo Shutsdown during Start-up

Question

Pismo Shutsdown during Start-up

I have a G3 Pismo 500 MHz Powerbook that will not finish the Start-Up process before it, for some unknown reason, Powers off. This even happens when starting up from the optical drive.

This started happening shortly after I replaced the 30 gb HDD (S.M.A.R.T. was reporting eminent failure), with a new Seagate 80 gb HDD. It was up and running for a few weeks before this started happening. Since the System Battery (i.e. PRAM battery) was dead, I thought that maybe this was the problem. So, I replaced it. That didn't help.

Then, I thought that maybe the new HDD was the problem, so, I initialized it with the Mac OS 10.4 installation disk. When I tried to reinstall the OS, it wouldn't complete the installation. So, I removed the HDD and connected it to another computer. Disk Utility and Drive Genius both indicated that there are no problems with the new HDD. With the HDD disconnected from the Powerbook in question, I tried to start-up from the optical drive with a Mac OS X 10.4 disk. The same thing happens. Sometimes it will get all of the way to the language selection screen on the Mac OS installation disk. Then when I try to continue, it powers off. With or without the HDD connected, Sometimes it only gets to the Blue screen which follows the screen with the Apple Logo and the turning gear, then it powers off.

I searched the Apple Support site for assistance and found references to resetting the PRAM and the PMU. Neither of these have helped.

I thought that maybe there was a bad connection in the RAM, so, I took it out and put it back in.

Any ideas of what to look for next?

G5, Mac OS X (10.4.11), Dual 2 GHz PPC G5, 1.5 GB DDR SDRAM, HDD 150 GB

Posted on Mar 30, 2008 5:54 AM

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Answer 1

jpl

Level 7

28,285 points

Mar 30, 2008 10:25 AM in response to Rick Billings

Rick,

I would double-check to make sure you do not have a poorly seated microprocessor card.

Remove the top memory module so you do not damage it. Now press down VERY hard on the right side of the microprocessor card next to the HD and next to the palm rest, i.e. the right quadrant closest to you. This is where the multi-pin connector lies and is quite hard to seat. You should hear a click as it fully seats; don't be afraid to push down hard.

Without any reassembly, you can test startup and see if the issue is solved.

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Answer 2

Mar 30, 2008 1:32 PM in response to Rick Billings

Update:
I tried starting it up from a Mac OS 9 installation disk and it did start-up, so I installed OS 9. Now I can start up the computer in Mac OS 9 from the HDD.
When I try to install OS 10.4 It says that there is a problem and that it can't configure the installation. The log is too long to post here, but it starts out: Launching the Language Chooser for an OS install. Then on the next line, Launching the installer Crash Log Viewer ... Localhost crashdump ... CDLangChooser ... Exception: EXC BADACCESS ... KERN INVALIDADDRESS (0x0001) at 0xa73178a0

Then there is about 2 pages of crashdumps.

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Answer 3

Mar 30, 2008 3:11 PM in response to jpl

jpl,
I tried your suggestion: pressing the card back into place. It still won't work with the 10.4 disk. I tried a 10.2 disk and it won't get past the Logo screen with the turning gear.

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Answer 4

jpl

Level 7

28,285 points

Mar 30, 2008 7:29 PM in response to Rick Billings

Rick,

Since you can boot 9.x successfully from the CD and internal HD, plus you have reset the PRAM and power manager, I think this leaves just a few possibilities:

-You may have poorly seated RAM and/or a RAM module that has developed a problem; even though 9.x runs without issue, 10.x is much more sensitive to RAM problems. If both modules are at least 128MB in size, test each one individually by trying to boot your 10.2 CD. I am not sure if the Tiger DVD will boot with only 128MB but you can also try it.

-Disconnect all peripherals, even a USB mouse.

-If no success, remove the internal AirPort card if one is present; a poorly seated card or one that has failed can cause problems.

-If still no success, remove the microprocessor card, turn it over, and carefully examine the multi-pin connector with a magnifying glass if necessary; look for any bent pin(s). I mention this since a user had a weird problem: He could boot his Tiger installation from the HD, but only in Safe Boot (shift key down); he was unable to start normally. A repair shop found one bent pin; straightened and the 'book ran fine. Just a thought...

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Answer 5

Apr 1, 2008 8:07 PM in response to Rick Billings

Those sorts of problems are caused by executing bad stuff in RAM. How it got in RAM is the essence of the problem. The Mac OS X Install CD is a robust, well-tested image. We like to think it almost can't have a software problem. That leaves various parts of your Hardware.

Your CD seems to be working well enough to run 9 off the CD and Install and run 9 off the Hard drive. You could try reversing your memory modules, and making sure the contacts are shiny and the modules fully seated. You could try a memory test -- there is a simple one built into Gauge Pro.

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Answer 6

Apr 5, 2008 7:41 PM in response to jpl

Thanks for your suggestions, but I am still having the problem.

I have swapped the ram and cleaned the contacts. The RAM Chip that was on the bottom was an Apple chip. I don't understand the numbers on the sticker, but the OS 9 system profiler indicates that it is a 64 MB chip (The sticker on the bottom of the computer indicates that the computer originally shipped with 128 MB of RAM - Maybe it was 2 64's?). The other is a 256 MB chip. So, one of the things that I tried, since the 256 MB chip is enough to start under OS X, was to completely remove the "64 MB" chip. This still didn't fix the problem.

The contacts under the Microprocessor card were mostly straight. There were 2 that were slightly bent, so I straightened them.

Then I removed, inspected and replaced the Airport Card. One of the times that the computer successfully started up in OS X, I was able to connect to my wireless network and access the internet (I loaded the Apple website - I always use that as a internet connection test).

I have another Pismo which is up and running. So, I used it to install OS X on the HDD from the computer in question. It started up one time. The Spotlight icon in the menu bar kept flashing and System Preferences crashed several times.

Then it notified me that new setting had been set for each of the System Preferences that I had opened and asked me if I wanted to use the new settings (yes/no). Shortly after this, it unexpectedly powered off.

Then, at one of the attempts to start-up, it had a strange beep, which I usually associate with the Sad Mac icon, and the power light flashed like a strobe light; then it booted the Open Firmware!? When I entered the suggested command to boot the Mac OS, it simply went to another prompt and did nothing. So I used the shut-down command. This happened several times.

Then suddenly it acted like it was going to boot OS X, but after a few seconds of the turning gear, it went to a gray screen with a solid black box in the center. This happened several times.

At one point, while the computer was shut down, it started up just after I closed the monitor!? So, I opened it. It was starting up in OS 9. I'm not sure what is going on with this computer!?

I have not been able to get this computer to boot in either safe-mode or single user mode.

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Answer 7

jpl

Level 7

28,285 points

Apr 5, 2008 8:39 PM in response to Rick Billings

Rick,

I think one of your observations may supply the answer:

"Then, at one of the attempts to start-up, it had a strange beep, which I usually associate with the Sad Mac icon, and the power light flashed like a strobe light; then it booted the Open Firmware!?"

See if you can identify the exact number of beeps and LED flashes.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=58183

"In addition to the beeps, on some computers the power LED will flash a corresponding number of times plus one. The LED will repeat the sequence after approximately a 5-second pause. The tones are only played once.

"Note: In this case, a flash is considered to be 1/4 second or 250 ms or greater in length."

The boot ROM is located on the microprocessor card and its misbehavior, if occurring, can be intermittent.

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Answer 8

Apr 5, 2008 9:19 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

It fails the Gauge Pro memory test.
Does this mean that I have my answer?

I believe that I know which module it is... It has to be the Samsung 256 MB module, because when I took the Apple 64 MB out, the problem remained.

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Answer 9

Apr 5, 2008 9:39 PM in response to jpl

jpl,

It was a long single beep with multiple flashes, which did not repeat and I can't seem to duplicate the situation. Your suggestion about the boot ROM is viable. But, not as cheaply fixed as RAM.

Any ideas on how to test the Boot ROM?

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Answer 10

jpl

Level 7

28,285 points

Apr 5, 2008 10:25 PM in response to Rick Billings

Rick,

If it was a single beep, that would suggest RAM was undetected; Gauge Pro seems to confirm bad or marginal RAM. Please remember that the POST only runs from a cold start and not through a restart.

Try just the 64MB running in 9.x; run the extended memory test in Gauge Pro. Start up in 9.x with the shift key down (extensions off) so as little RAM as possible is being used; Gauge Pro can only test free memory.

Hopefully you just have a bad 256MB module and not a problem with one of the memory slots. The only way I can think of testing this unknown is to run/test the 64 in both slots. If results are nominal, replace the 256MB...you might consider a 512MB module; with the 64MB, you would have 576MB total.

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Answer 11

Apr 6, 2008 6:48 PM in response to Rick Billings

Actual memory problems can be very illusive. Sometimes it takes runs of overnight or longer to identify the failure.

The memory test in Gauge Pro is not magical. If it says your memory fails, the problem is a fairly obvious one. If the contacts are clean and shiny, and properly inserted, you need a new memory module. If the original seller's label is still on it, they may exchange it for nothing or a nominal charge.

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Answer 12

Apr 7, 2008 12:32 PM in response to jpl

Using Gauge Pro, the 256MB (Samsung) checks bad. The 64MB (Apple) checks good in both slots. I ran this test continuously for several minutes and over several restarts with extensions off.

Looks like I need to go shopping for some RAM.

At this point I believe that my question is Answered. I suppose that it is possible that some of the other problems mentioned here could still exist, like the boot ROM, but this RAM problem will have to be the next step.

I've learned a lot here. Thanks for your help!

Message was edited by: Rick Billings

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Answer 13

jpl

Level 7

28,285 points

Apr 7, 2008 8:05 PM in response to Rick Billings

Rick,

Please let us know your results.

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Answer 14

Apr 12, 2008 5:51 AM in response to jpl

I have installed a new 512MB Memory Module to replace the defective 256MB Module and now the computer is up and running like a charm! It has one of the original Apple 64MB chips and the new 512MB chip.

As it so happens, this 512MB chip is a 133 MHz chip instead of the 100 MHz which was indicated to be the required speed. So, If you were wondering, the Pwrbk (Firewire) WILL work with 133 MHz; and a mixture of 100 & 133.

After installing the RAM, I had to do a fresh install of OS X because some of the system files had become corrupted from the defective RAM module.

Thank you to JPL and Grant for your help!

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Answer 15

jpl

Level 7

28,285 points

Apr 12, 2008 8:15 AM in response to Rick Billings

Rick,

Good work, and thanks for the update.

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