Apogee Duet Monitors/Speakers

"believe me... I know what I'm talking about"

I'm afraid that point is open to debate. 🙂

Of course I have no idea what I'm talking about either.

Okay, so maybe I do. But I'll say one thing: almost all project studio-level equipment has I/Os designed to accept/address either -10 or +4, unbalanced or balanced. If you see an input level control like the one pictured earlier in this thread, then the receiving device (in this case the amp(s) in the powered monitor) has active gain circuitry that will match the incoming signal to what it wants to see. End of story; nothing to worry about.

In the land of high-end tweaking, every piece of extra circuitry has a slight effect on the signal, so some equipment leaves it out (Waves L2 limiter for example) or gives you the option of bypassing it (Millennia Media channel strips), but it's really, really subtle and irrelevant to what we're talking about here. And even with that caveat, people sometimes like the effect of extra circuitry. We're seeing analog summing boxes, "tube warmth" stuff...in fact the Millennia channel strips even let you run the signal through a transformer for its effect.

Now, neither +4 or -10 is intrinsically better than the other; the question is what level your equipment is designed to interface with. If you have a choice, use the higher output (+4dBV) and a balanced connection, but you are very unlikely to have a mismatch between the output of a Duet and any amp or powered monitor on the market.

One other point re: active vs. passive monitors. The difference is simply that active monitors have the amps inside them and passive monitors require external amps. Manufacturers of powered monitors argue that the amps are tailored to the individual drivers, and having line-level active crossovers is better than the passive ones you find in passive speakers. And that's true. But there are great and lousy passive and active monitors.

Bottom line, the Duet's unbalanced output is not an issue. Go to the store and listen to some speakers in your price range, pick one, and don't worry.

-10db is no limitation, the duets a great piece of kit as pro as you'd like it to be.
making music solely within a mac isn't pro but it is Eraser-Thom Yorke.
s/dif isn't pro it's consumer and it's pro, if you're using xlr then you're doing it the pro way.
balanced and unbalanced is undistinguishable isn't it ?

I think we're writing at cross-purposes: fermusic makes a valid point - unbalanced outs (-10) are not "professional" and you can't digitally connect a Duet into a larger system. However, as fermusic admits, this is not to say that the Duet doesn't sound very good, that it can even record "professional quality" audio. It's just that once you've recorded it you need to use another gizmo to get it back out of the computer whether it's to your monitors or whatever. as I understand him, his point seems to be that a professional mastering engineer shouldn't use the Duet to output to his monitors. I don't think there's much danger of that occurring (I use Mytek convertors on that end myself) and I'm happily being paid real money to use my Duet to record professional quality audio. At the same time, I don't think using the Duet for monitoring/playback is going to ruin your mixes.
Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it ...

I really wish rather than arguing off topic about pedantic knowledge of outputs that this unit does not possess, that there were some more answers regarding some good monitors that are compatible with it.

I really wish you'd go to a store and listen to some pedantic speakers rather than insulting everyone who's tried to be helpful in this thread. Go do an internet search for speaker recommendations if you need other people to hold your hand. There's no shortage of "what speakers should I buy" threads on every audio forum in the universe, and the answer is the same every time: I'm very happy with the [insert speakers person owns] because my mixes translate well, I'm hearing stuff I never heard before, and the imaging is amazing.

I was looking at the MACKIE MR5 and The unbalanced input on the Mackie MR5 is a RCA input, but the out of the duet is TRS? so is the best bet to get a TRS to RCA unbalanced cable? do I lose any sound quality going through RCA?


Also I was thinking of getting the Grace M101 preamp, because I don't love the pres on the duet. do you think the Grace would be a step up? or would it be to similar to the DUET?

Oh FFS.

Use a standard instrument cable to connect 99 out of 100 active monitors out there. There will be NO sonic issues. None. Zip. Zilch. Nada. Go argue about noise-floors and how many angels crying you won't hear if you want to get fetishistic about it.

As for preamps. The Duet preamps are fantastic. They are clean though. So unless you want some specific coloration on the input side I wouldn't bother because you're not really improving the signal chain, but that's me.

Unless you just can't stand using a fantastic interface as-is, which is not uncommon.

I"m feeling quite the curmudgeon of late.

'the Duet because it cannot be "clocked" with any device and cannot be use the Mac OS X aggregate device feature'

'believe me... I know what I'm talking about'

From the Apogee site:

'That being said, one of the coolest features of Core Audio is the ability to aggregate multiple devices into a single device. This is possible with the built-in audio I/O of the Mac. So for cue mixes, aggregate Duet and the built-in output and you're good to go'

I have no idea what this argument is about, but I would certainly check my facts before boasting about my knowledge... 😝

BC Productions wrote:
Also, for the record the Duet has UNbalanced outputs. That's an issue for some folks who insist on equating unbalanced with unprofessional or some similar nonsense. Just make sure the active monitors you select accept unbalanced input.

This is not my opinion, but there are some output level limitation:
-10db vu output are for Hi-Fi home system... usually ALL professional active monitors are made for work fine with +4db-vu

Apogee is a fantastic interface but the Noise floor of ALL active monitors with analog INPUT made for +4db will be rise UP...
you should loose about 14 db and more of dynamic range because you must increase the gain of the monitors.
Also the cables must be very good in order to reduce cables noise...
Apogee is a very professional gear.
- 10 db-vu is not a professional output.
These are objective data....
but (of course) I worked with worse gear, with professional results...
I mean that apogee is a great brand and with the Duet you can be obtained excellent (only stereo) results...
in any case -10 db vu is not a professional standard input connection 🙂

G

This is the level knob picture of the Yamaha HS80 M (I have also other monitors... NS10 and old Tannoy passive big monitors)
HS80 are very good sound for near-fild active monitor



as you can see in the picture the active monitors are usually compatible with -10db input but with MAXIMUM gain setting...
and ....the noise will be increased ... just little bit.... 14 db up + cables noise.

this is a very little limitation... but there is with any analog audio gear.
+4 db output is the standard for be able to use full dynamic range.

G

negv wrote:
Sonically on a small studio set-up the difference between -10 & +4 is next to zero.

Yeah. you are rigth... in a little recrding home studio this is not a big problem but in a professional studio enviroments with "TONs" of cable connection and hardware outbouard this "next to zero" differnce should be not so little...

Also the Duet is a great portable interface...
and there is a way to use for recirding my live performance for external recording...

My personal expirence said that there is a big difference between +4db and - 10db output

-10db is iPod OUT level, + 4db is professional stadard equipments Out level

😉

I'm with you BC Producton...
the Duet is a real good interface and I will buy it soon for be use at the hotels in my next summer travels

🙂

The Apogge duet is a great recording interface with good preamps (but without limiter) that are perferct for recording Voice from a good condenser microphone.

But it is not so good for using as final mastering device.
I think, Duet is the perfect device for using in a portable situation with MacBooks (very small size and easy to carry on).
If your needs are only in a Home studio recording there are many others with a great sound at allmost same cost.

There are many audio cards on the market (low-cost but with great professional sound) for home-recording studios with more Inputs/outputs and versatile professional connections.

Apogee Duet offers obvious limitations such as lack of digital outputs (which does not increase production costs) only because it is a company that produces high cost/quality devices as the famous Rosetta, it is an interface with 2 IN / OUT but includes all pro connections.
And these are the only limitations of which I speak when I refer to Duet

This totally irrelevant and what you say on the quality of sound between balaced connection is absolutely not true.. +4DB out can be used with unbalanced cables too!!!
It is not a Must!

+4db vu output can be unbalanced as well with the same "better quality" that you are talking about!!! (if that is true.. I don't think so)
The problem about the differences of sounds is caused only by a not correct impedance!

The vast majority of active monitors are designed to connect with balanced/unbalanced cables like as PA system (but works better with +4DB in any case)

Usually -10 db out require a good preamp for doing the best result

When Mixing, I need full dynamic range... (My Motu is setted to Maximum Volume Level... (if you do mixing with limiter is another way... not professional to me)
The Duet in the same condition gives - 14db pressure level.. I need to push up the Level knob of active monitors... noise increase... this happen with Balanced and unbalaced cables as well.

a good Mix down must be made without Limiter or compressor on the master.
This is what I like to hear .. The maximum possible dynamic range.

on the Yamaha HS80 you can choose bal/unbal connection...
with Motu 828MK2 I can choose too to connect as I want... but, just to clarify 😉

+4 db out gives more S/N ratio with all possibile connection kinds
.....you can connect on a professional Valve preamp or Analog Mixer...
the noise will always increase 14 db...

With unbalanced circuit you can find much more problems tha balanced... specially if you live in a big City or you have Cell phones, Air conditioners and electric motors at your home.

+4 DB out should be much better for an Apogee gear...
(this is a restriction designed by apogee engineers to give a "low price" product without losing the opportunity to sell the High-End "Rosetta" models and other pro stuff)
(the converter and the clock are not the same of professional apogee stuff)

Message was edited by: fermusic