Won't Even Start ... Norton Fails To Repair

Question

Level 1

19 points

Won't Even Start ... Norton Fails To Repair

Over the course of the past two days, we have moved the G4 tower upstairs, installing Tiger prior to moving it. Everything was noticably slower as the computer was fairly fragmented, however as the computer has been demoted to email/open office status only, we didn't want to erase everything and install fresh. The only other change to the computer was adding an old airport card, which had no effect on the computer before or after installing tiger.

The issue is that the computer will not even startup now. The initial noise sounds, and within a few seconds, the computer automatically shuts off. Upon startup with the latest version of Norton, disk doctor "has come across an unknown error" and will not finish. The same thing happens with running the defrag part.

If the problem surfaced from installing tiger on a fragmented machine, you would think it would have been aparent fromt the begining, not days after.

Any ideas as to where I can go from here? My main desire at this point is to be able to recover files fromt the harddrive. If I have to erase and install fresh, that is not a setback - as long as the files can be copied to a different computer or removable HD.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions...
Craig

PS also tried starting in safe mode, but the computer again shut off within seconds of starting up....

Posted on Oct 21, 2005 5:09 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Oct 21, 2005 5:21 PM in response to craig tarr

Hello Craig.

First, there is no Norton Utilities version that is compatible with Tiger and it shouldn't be used with OS X anyway since it has been known to cause more problems than it resolves with OS X. Symantec announced over two years ago they will no longer be supporting Norton Utilities with OS X but they continue to sell it.

Unless you work with large files involved with Video editing, etc., defragmenting a hard drive is not required with OS X and is not the cause of the problem. I suspect using Norton Utilities with this computer before and after installing Tiger is the culprit.

Creating a backup of all important data should be the first step before installing a major OS Upgrade.

Did you run Disk First Aid repair on the hard drive via Disk Utilities when booted from the Tiger install disc and repaired disk permissions from the same location before proceeding with the install?

Did you also disconnect all external peripheral devices except for a keyboard and mouse before installing Tiger?

Can you boot from the Tiger install disc to run Disk First Aid repair on the hard drive?

Did you use the Simple Upgrade or Archive & Install method?

If this G4 Tower has a Firewire port, do you have another Mac with a Firewire port you can connect via Firewire Target Disk mode to recover the existing data?

Reply

Answer 2

craig tarr Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 21, 2005 6:59 PM in response to Allan Sampson

thanks for the detailed response,
I actually had everything backed up on each of the four user accounts except for my iTunes files, which i've spent many, many, many hours/dollars with...(the whole save the biggest part for last, and then end up forgetting about it..)

I tried to boot from the Tiger disk, and it spun continually (more than 1 hour). I also tried loading the tiger disk normally and when asked for a harddrive to install tiger onto, ours did not appear. So somewhere in the dd/defrag, the HD got screwed up.

All devices, USB, Firewire or otherwise are unplugged except for the mouse and keyboard.

I will look into Firewire target disk mode and further options to try and boot from the tiger disk, or possibly the 10.3, 10.2, or 10.1 OS X install disks...

Thanks,
Craig

Reply

Answer 3

ds store

Level 7

30,725 points

Oct 21, 2005 7:38 PM in response to craig tarr

Forget the older Panther disks, usually OS/firmware updates kill them.

Best to Target Disk Mode and use Data Rescue as a last resort.

Grab your whole iTunes folder to keep the playlists data intact.

Norton is garbage, you have to update your drives drivers for Tiger, do that by visiting the makers websites.

Didn't backup your music? Bummer. DVD's even cloning the whole boot drive.

read on, might help

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?128@@.68ba240f

http://discussions.info.apple.com/webx?128@@.68b96845

Reply

Answer 4

craig tarr Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 23, 2005 1:10 PM in response to ds store

It will not boot from the tiger or panther install disks, but only brings up the install screen. (i tried cmnd-shift-delete-opt and c) I then tried selecting the startup disk by holding down option for all three disks. One of the older install disks had a hardware test, but in spun continuosly after i selected my language.

Target disk mode does not work as "Mac OS X does not recognize this volume." I didn't want to hit initialize in fear of losing all our files.

How can I startup off of a disk to repair my existing harddrive? I spent quite a few hours now, and through vraious places cannot find anything that i haven't already tried.

Under cmnd-v startup, i see the system launching, and apparently after the fsuk_hfs: line, it tried to mount the locl filesystems,upon which DATE launchd: bdin("thesocket"): no such file or directory comes up, followed by some kernal numbers and a "resetting files and devices"

If that makes sense to anyone, can I somehow force the computer to startup, using some code, under a different hardrive, or go in a repair mode or something? I normally cannot find something within or mac environment that escapes me, so it's frustrating to not be able to figure this out.

Thanks again for everyone's help!

Reply

Answer 5

craig tarr Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 23, 2005 1:30 PM in response to craig tarr

I also tried sbin/fsck -f and fsck -f under single user mode resulting in the following error:
invalid file or directory id found (4,20) *volume check failed.

Reply

Answer 6

Oct 23, 2005 3:53 PM in response to craig tarr

"It will not boot from the tiger or panther install disks, but only brings up the install screen."

Not exactly sure what you mean here, but when you boot up from the install disk this is what you get. To run Disk Utility from here you have to select it from one of the menu items along the top ("tools" I think from memory). Don't start the install process, though I think you have to as far a choosing English to get to the screen with the menu items on it.

Mike

Reply

Answer 7

Dean Pahl

Level 4

3,870 points

Oct 23, 2005 5:08 PM in response to craig tarr

Hey, y'all!

(1) Craig, First I want to back up a bit in terms of differential diagnoses.

So far we've focused on Norton, the OS X 10.4.x installation, and "surgical procedures" but not on the other major factor you've mentioned: that you'd just moved the Power Mac G4. (Btw, could you define the model?)
Let's consider and explore this a bit. I've owned Macs with tower form factor one of the great things is how easy it is to get inside the box to upgrade, etc. What if things got jarred more than you realized during the move? I think you'd want to open 'er up and, at a minimum, check that all your RAM is properly seated, connections to drive(s) are sound, logic-board reset button, etc. Everything.
If it were me, I'd stop thinking about anything else until I'd thoroughly explored this domain of possibilities. Just a single thing could have caused the entire snafu. . .
(2) Like Mike, I'm a bit baffled by your explanations of the exact boot behavior particularly when you try to boot from a CD. With no CD: does it "auto-shutdown" from a black screen? gray? WIth CD: I think you're saying that from a C-boot, the optical drive "sees" the CD, so you've at least partially booted (one driver's working). When you say it "only brings up the install screen," do you mean that you see the screen where you select "Use English as the main language" and can press > to continue, but don't get any further toward the "Welcome to Mac OS X Installer" dialog box? Or. . . ?
Whether you'll be able to boot from any bootable CD is underlying my concern. Could it be the Install Disc itself? Do you have a compatible version of Tech Tool or DiskWarrior on disc that you could try?
(3) If Target Disk Mode won't work and you can't boot to any optical media. . . there aren't a whole lot of further choices to consider. If you can do the latter, e.g., you could try Data Rescue ($350) or FIleSalvage ($90 but much less renown) to save your iTunes files. If this is even feasible, you'll have to "do the math" on cost:potential benefit.
Well, for now,
That's All, Folks!
Good luck to you,
Dean

Reply

Answer 8

macjack

Level 10

111,168 points

Oct 23, 2005 5:37 PM in response to Dean Pahl

Yikes Dean, Prosoft Data Rescue isn't that expensive, just $99. There is also a free trial to see if it can recover what you need.

Reply

Answer 9

Dean Pahl

Level 4

3,870 points

Oct 23, 2005 6:11 PM in response to macjack

"Thanks, macjack," he said <big> v e r y sheepishly. Oops!</big>
My apologies to all, including prosoft, for providing the site license rather than individual price. No intent, just a mistake of hyperbolic proportion.
macjack am I right to think that both "free demo downloads" allow you to "view" the recoverable files, but not to actually recover them until you pay?
Thanks again!
Dean

Reply

Answer 10

macjack

Level 10

111,168 points

Oct 23, 2005 6:31 PM in response to Dean Pahl

No need for sheep Dean, just wanted to point that out. I believe it allows you to recover one of the files as a test.

Reply

Answer 11

craig tarr Author

Level 1

19 points

Oct 23, 2005 7:08 PM in response to macjack

my bad on the booting to the tiger cd. i thought there used to be the option to either boot to the install package, or to a desktop from which you could run utilities etc... Anyway, i got to the disk utilities and had the same issues in regards to errors on account of not being ablet to find the volume.

I will check out the internal connections, but i moved it like 30 feet, never turning it upside down, or dropping it.

I will probably be trading the machine in for a mac mini for some $250-$300 after trade, so will be taking it to Team Electronics this week. Hopefully they can try to remove the HD and mount it to a diff. computer as they did in the past when our old G3 died.

Thanks

Reply

Answer 12

Dean Pahl

Level 4

3,870 points

Oct 23, 2005 7:47 PM in response to craig tarr

Craig,

No problemo. Glad you can boot to CD.

You'd be amazed at the humongous dust bunnies that can collect over the years inside a "tower" maybe the short move dislodged one. Remember to have the canned air, Q-tips, rubbing alcohol, and grounding strap handy if you're "going inside."

DiskWarrior &/or other disk utilities may be able to "see" and mount your drive. . .
]. . .but if you're set to use it as a "trade-in" >

then, in the words of the legendary Gilda Radner (SNL comic from years ago), Never mind!

Reply