ITunes mpeg 2 transcoding support

AppleTV does not support mpeg2 playback or divx only specifically encoded MP4/h264 files.

iTunes does not support on the fly transcoding when streaming.

More diverse format support would be very welcome - as you point out converting files is no fun.

AC

I'm thinking you make too much of this playback issue. There are very excellent encoders out there to transform that MPEG2 format to useable MPEG4 using h264 codec. The file size will be more manageable over the long term as user accumulates more files. I've already run out of 500 gig hard drive space. I would have much sooner if I was dealing strictly with MPEG2 files.

On a fast intel Mac such as the Mac Pro a two hour MPEG2 file is just 60 minutes to complete a dolby digital m4v encode. That's no big deal unless you run your Mac 24/7 which I doubt. So when user steps away just take a few seconds and start an encode. User can still do everything else on the Mac except a restart or a foolish software install while the encode is completing.

Trouble is Smokerz, if Apple want to sell this device in large numbers, then the average consumer is not going to be prepared to encode every file they have in another format. It's too much hassle and they'll look somewhere else for another solution even if it's got a worse interface.

Now I wouldn't want to support every format under the sun but I think at the very least MPEG1/2 would be sensible to support and probably DivX too (though I have my reservations about that).

We already know from AppleTV modders that you can install other codecs and AppleTv will play other formats back fine.

I don't really know what the business model is here but currently it's almost a case of don't let people play any of their existing video files unless they a) have bought then from us, b) are prepared to convert them to an appropriate format or c) have created them recently in those specific formats.

I think Apple really want people buying/renting and this limited file support is designed to maximise that. Trouble is they seem to be shooting themselves in the feet, as enthusiasts will mod or be patient to convert/transcode files. I don't think that many people are prepared to buy something again that they already have in another format.

It would be interesting to poll users about what percentage of content is purchased via iTunes, transcoded or home grown.

Opening up codec support wouold give AppleTV a much wider user base, and simply on percentages would mean more revenue for iTunes store whereas currently lots of people won't buy because it's not flexible enough without jumping through hoops.

I love mine, but the average consumer will not jump through a laod of hoops if there's an alternative.

AC

agree with your point of view.

Files in mpeg2 format will be too large and at too high a bitrate to play on the tv in standard quality. If you look at the average DVD it likely has 6-7 GB of data on it and runs at a bitrate of 6-7 Mbps, both exceed the specs for the tv. Allowing mpeg2 files to be played on the tv would limit content to low quality material.

In respect of Divx the situation is somewhat different, you couldn't really expect  to support it, apart from it being a format that belongs to another organisation and one that has been inconsistent in it's specifications over time it is largely a platform that at least ignores if not encourages piracy.

Winston Churchill wrote:
Files in mpeg2 format will be too large and at too high a bitrate to play on the tv in standard quality. If you look at the average DVD it likely has 6-7 GB of data on it and runs at a bitrate of 6-7 Mbps, both exceed the specs for the tv. Allowing mpeg2 files to be played on the tv would limit content to low quality material.

On the face of it I see your point but it's not necessarily correct when you think about it.

The bitrate maximum values apply specificaly to MP4/h264 files. Other formats may have lower/higher bitrate maximum values.

h264 is definitely more complex to encode and I suspect to decode than MPEG-2.

The AppleTV modders can play back MPEG-2 easily using adidtional codecs, so we know it's capable of doing so.

There are several factors at play, which probably mainly realtes to the decoding prowess of AppleTV - streaming and the internal hard drive should easily be able to deliver bitrates well in excess of 5Mbps, and the processing power I suspect is rate limiting.

In respect of Divx the situation is somewhat different, you couldn't really expect  to support it, apart from it being a format that belongs to another organisation and one that has been inconsistent in it's specifications over time it is largely a platform that at least ignores if not encourages piracy.

The piracy aspects are why I have reservations, but increasingly DVD players and HDD recorders will allow playback of DivX content - -the reason being that the demand is out there to make it worth including. I often see people saying they will not buy a particular DVD player/recorder etc as it doesn't support Divx. These devices are more mainstream than AppleTV, so I think the average consumer would apply the same criteria when deciding if AppleTV was right for them or not.

I think I used Divx once many years ago on PC when it was in an early stage of evolution but it's not something I woud choose to use.

AC

Alley_Cat wrote:
On the face of it I see your point but it's not necessarily correct when you think about it.

The bitrate maximum values apply specificaly to MP4/h264 files. Other formats may have lower/higher bitrate maximum values.

h264 is definitely more complex to encode and I suspect to decode than MPEG-2.

The AppleTV modders can play back MPEG-2 easily using adidtional codecs, so we know it's >capable of doing so.

Yes but the bitrate and the file size doesn't just impact on the CPU, you need to consider the effects on a network and storage. Unless you were prepared to compromise on quality then you could only fit 4 movies on the 40 GB tv and the demands of streaming them over a network may well rule out many consumers who can currently stream AVC movies quite easily.

The piracy aspects are why I have reservations, but increasingly DVD players and HDD recorders will allow playback of DivX content - -the reason being that the demand is out there to make it worth including.

This is true but the DVD player manufacturer isn't trying to court the movie studios into agreeing to movie downloads, indeed they may well do anything to discourage them from going down this path. It may even be true to say that adding Divx capabilities to DVD players is just the sort of thing that might achieve such discouragement.

rishabrana wrote:
Here is a good example, itunes doesn't support wma. But if you import it, it will convert it for you. That's a helpful feature.

If the bit rate is too high then convert the file.

Isn't that what you are trying to avoid.

There may be a few of us here that like to use a whole bunch of software to get better results from files that need converting, but for the average consumer it needn't be such a hassle, all you really need to do is choose 'convert selection for apple tv' from the advanced menu in itunes and that's it job done.

Fair point about storage on a 40GB AppleTV - use a more efficient compression and fit more on there. Less of a consideration if you stream most stuff anyway - personally I'd rather buy twice as much storage than spend all my time transcoding stuff to h264.

I have no proof it's just I would be surprised if wireless streaming could not deliver a far higher bitrate than 5Mbps and that AppleTv could cope with a less onerous decode from a higher bitrate file.

Not saying everyone should use MPEG-2, just that I'd like the option, even with a limited bitrate if necessary.

I guess in the same Divx on a DVD player might discourage rentals, the lack of it might encourage them on AppleTV (location, luck and a fair wind permitting!).

AC

I agree. And I don't understand the limitation on quality. Seems to me that my powermacG3 was playing 1920x1080 movie trailers encoded in MPEG-4 about 8 years ago. now AppleTV's idea of HD is lower than that? H.264 seems to be a resource hog and with the low price of hard drives today the option to use mpeg2 files should be there. The thing I liked most about the iPod was that although it supported .mp3 and .mp4/fairplay, it also supported plain old, uncompressed, high quality aiff files.