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User profile for user: Mitch Sink
Mitch Sink Author
User level: Level 1
134 points

Good news! - Mac Version Cinemacraft Encoder Xtreme (Compressor Plugin)

Hi,

Good news!

I talked to Ray at Omni-Cinema Craft a few weeks ago and he told me they are pretty far along with testing their CCE-MP Compressor Plug-in. He asked me not to say anything until they are ready for a formal announcement. He said the code is the same as their Cinema Craft Xtream, which I think is their high end Hardware encoder. He said on a 8 core Mac Pro each pass is about 9x faster than RT! He said that they are tentatively planning on a price in the $500 to $800 range. I just received the following in an email from Omni (it sounds like Brian is giving a demo, probably at NAB):

Thanks for your interest in CCE-MP.
You can now tell your friends and we invite you to go ahead a post to wherever you like. Thanks for your patience. Product will be shipping in the first part of May 2008, and price will be available shortly. You can now tell your friends and we invite you to go ahead a post wherever you'd like.

This session will herald in a new era of MPEG-2 encoding for optical media inside Final Cut Studio with the debut of Cinema Craft's MP Compressor Plugin. Based on the highly successful QuickTime Components architecture, the Plugin fits right into the standard Compressor workflow alongside the built in presets. Until now, the encoder engine inside CinemaCraft Encoder MP was used only for Cinema Craft Xtream, the "on-line" high end system that set the bench mark with high quality, Hollywood DVD titles. With the debut of Cinema Craft MP, Hollywood quality MPEG-2 encoding is now available for the Mac. Brian will go in depth with the Cinema Craft MP Compressor Plugin by walking through all the major components and settings. He'll also demonstrate real-world workflows for both television and feature film optical delivery that originate with Standard and High Definition content.

They also have this on their Web Site:
[www.omni-cinemacraft.com]
CINEMA CRAFT Encoder MP

CINEMA CRAFT Encoder MP is a plug-in developed for Compressor 3, the audio/video encoding application that is included with Apple's Final Cut Studio 2.

Until now, this encoder engine inside CinemaCraft Encoder MP was used only for the Cinema Craft Xtream, the "on-line" high end system that set the bench mark quality Standard for Hollywood DVD titles. This DVD standard for Hollywood quality MPEG-2 is now available for the Mac. CinemaCraft Encoder MP allows Final Cut Studio 2 users to encode their content to world class high-quality MPEG-2 files for DVD authoring without changing their workflow.

Call OMNI at (949)760-6664 to Find Out More About the New CINEMA CRAFT Encoder MP

Best Wishes,

Mitch

Dual 1.8 G5 - 2.5 gigs of RAM - 2 external SATA Drives, Mac OS X (10.4.2), Final Cut Studio 1 (FCP 5.0.4)

Posted on Apr 14, 2008 11:54 AM

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User profile for user: Jake Russell
Jake Russell
User level: Level 5
5,515 points

Apr 15, 2008 11:29 AM in response to hanumang

I take it you guys need that level of quality improvement in your DVD deliveries?


Well it depends what you use, I hope it will mean I can consider encoding on the Mac again. Right now I (pretty much) only encode on Windows systems. If I get a software only version of CCX thats great but if thats on Mac then it's awesome.

Yes for me, there are features I need to see in there and that they do as they say on tin. I mean, even keeping the bitrate near what you tell it is a good start... right? If I tell CCE SP the max is 7795 is doesn't shoot off doing its own thing.

Even with CCE SP you need to know what you're doing... you have a world more features to play with over apps like BitVice.

It will be overkill for some users for sure but for me at that price, or cheaper 🙂 its worth getting excited about,

Cheers,
Jake
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User profile for user: Allister Gourlay
Allister Gourlay
User level: Level 2
454 points

Apr 15, 2008 2:45 PM in response to Mitch Sink

Im afraid I am new to this encoder - can someone explain to me in simple terms what the advantages of Cinemacraft Encoder Plugin are over what i use in Compressor now? At the moment i use Best quality 90 mins for Wedding films and corporate films with ac3 for audio, are we talking much better quality on the final viewed DVD?

Thanks!
So much to learn in such little time!
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User profile for user: Mitch Sink
Mitch Sink Author
User level: Level 1
134 points

Apr 15, 2008 7:15 PM in response to Drew13

Drew13 wrote:
Jake Russell wrote:
So rather than tweak the settings and re-encode individual segments manually you can just set it for a fairly high number (which is not a big deal at 9x RT)


Really... that's a shame...



Jake maybe that means it is an option and not the only way? (the "rather"/ "can" implies it is an option) Mitch does that means you have the option to tweak if you like?


Hi,

The topic came up when I asked him what was the advantage of multiple passes vs CC Lite which doesn't have that option. He said the principle advantage is you can allow the encoder to optimize the footage rather than manually tweak it (the encoder can usually do a good job of determining where it needs more bits if it has enough passes). He didn't imply that the ability to do this is removed from the plug-in. On the contrary he mentioned several times that the plug-in is superior to CC-SP because it is based on their CC Extreme Product (I pasted a quote from their web page that states that further down in this tread).

What he did imply is that if you allowed the encoder to make enough passes that it would do as good a job or a better job than you could normally do with a lot of manual tweaking because the encoder can determine where it needs more bits and where it needs less if it has enough chances to do so.

Jake, when you get a copy why don't you do a few tests. The best results you can get by manual tweaking vs something like 20 or 30(grin)passes and post the results.

I won't really know until I see the product or a demo but based on what I was told I will be surprised if this product is not at least as good as or better than CC-SP in virtually every respect.

Best Wishes,

Mitch

Message was edited by: Mitch Sink
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User profile for user: Mikey M.
Mikey M.
User level: Level 4
1,180 points

Apr 16, 2008 11:56 AM in response to Mitch Sink

Hey everyone,

Coming from an encoding background (authoring is a hobby) I can tell you that this is VERY exciting news.

Not only will Mac OS X users have a very viable option for encoding (or being able to encode) A titles, this is proof that software developers are starting to listen to the needs of prosumers! No longer are the wedding videographers or hobbiest that use a Mac only limited to PC software encoders for pristine looking video.

Furthermore, the icing on the cake (for me) on this thread is the fact that Cinema Craft is the one providing the software for our beloved OS. Many authoring/encoding houses are using some form of Cinema Craft hardware/software. I know this for a fact because I have worked in many here in the greater Los Angeles area.

The features I am looking most forward to is all the pre and post processing Cinema Craft is known for! In my opinion, it blows any current Mac encoding option.

Doing side-by-side comparisons on material encoded using Compressor and Cinema Craft Xtream (not REALLY a fair comparison), I noticed a HUGE difference in video quality. This was using the same pre-processing on both. So basically if I couldn't do something in Compressor, I wouldn't use CC Xtream (hey, this was as fair as I could get). I know I am being a little general as to what I did, so if anyone wants any examples, let me know.

Bragging right... That's HUGE at my facility, lol! No more can a PC enthusiast just say "wait, what encoders does OS X have again... LOL". Sorry, not anymore guys! Now I can throw-back "um, we have Cinema Craft 🙂"

Someone said that CC for Mac might be overkill. This is true. However, for those of us that wish to push the quality envelope will be VERY happy.

I am just rambling now.. but I am so dang happy :)!!!!

Finally, from an encoders view, there is no other Mac MPEG-2 algorithm that I would et babysit my kid 🙂

Mikey M. 🙂

*Update*
Just spoke with one of the encoders at our facility that works very closely with Cinema Craft engineers and he said the following (not verbatim):

-it is true, CC is coming out with a plug-in for Compressor. It will use the Xtream engine. I don't know the cost, but it will use the Compressor GUI but the CC Xtream render/transcode/encode... whatever you want to call it"

WOW! Now I wonder what types of processing the plug-in will allow!?

Message was edited by: Mikey M.
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User profile for user: Mitch Sink
Mitch Sink Author
User level: Level 1
134 points

Apr 22, 2008 1:06 PM in response to David S.

David S. wrote:
In addition to HD support, is there support for scaling of HD footage to SD sizes?


Hi,

I just called and CCE-MP can compress HD to SD MPEG2. He thinks you could even bump the bit rate to a higher level than allowed by DVD to make an SD Blu Ray disc (higher quality).

It can not do HD to HD or SD to HD.

Best Wishes,

Mitch
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User profile for user: Mitch Sink
Mitch Sink Author
User level: Level 1
134 points

May 19, 2008 12:04 PM in response to Jake Russell

Hi,

Pretty extensive review with Benchmarks here (brief excert below):
http://www.kenstone.net/fcp_homepage/cinema_craft_encoder.html

+$795.00+
+Requirements: Compressor 3, OS 10.5 and higher, Intel Mac.+
+Recommended: Mac Pro with 4 Gigs of RAM for SD, 8 Gigs for HD+

+The Cinema Craft line of encoders set the bar within the entertainment industry for Standard Definition DVD, MPEG-2 compression and then once again with AVC/H.264 High Definition encoding for Blu-ray discs. Their résumé of SD titles is quite impressive: The Lord of the Rings: Return of the King, Spiderman 3, King Kong, Pirates of the Caribbean, the list goes on... And their résumé for Blu-ray titles is equally impressive with the benchmark for Blu-ray encoding, Ratatouille at the top of the list. Until now, these high-end, Hollywood quality encoders have been contained within expensive, PC-centric boxes that were targeted for production houses and the studios themselves.+

+The release of Cinema Craft Encoder MP changes all that.+

+For the first time the Cinema Craft Xtream software encoding engine is available outside of its proprietary, online system as a Compressor 3 plug-in. This is the same Standard Definition encoding engine that produced the titles previously listed; the same software encoder that is the benchmark for quality within Hollywood. And equally important is the fact that you can now use this software encoding engine as a plug-in right alongside your other encoding presets within Compressor.+
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User profile for user: Drew13
Drew13
User level: Level 6
12,387 points

May 19, 2008 12:18 PM in response to David S.

David S. wrote:
Three telephone calls and three emails to Mr. Wallick at CC, and no response whatsoever.

Anybody actually talked to some at the company?



I spoke to someone a few weeks back (I guess right around the time this thread was posted) and they were putting together a list of people interested in getting this and said they would email/call. Haven't heard anything yet though
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User profile for user: Drew13
Drew13
User level: Level 6
12,387 points

May 20, 2008 8:55 PM in response to Jake Russell

They told me that it was going to be the 3rd or 4th week of May for the release, so it is getting close (I hope.) They also mentioned the speed is not quite as quick as the PC version, I think they said it is 2 to 4 times real time (or maybe 2 to 4 times faster than Compressor, cannot recall right now) from their testing. I had a few other general questions and all the answers were ones I wanted to hear in what it can do.

I will post again if I get notice about its release/availability to purchase if I hear anything from the emails or via phone.
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User profile for user: Drew13
Drew13
User level: Level 6
12,387 points

May 21, 2008 9:34 AM in response to David S.

David S. wrote:
There is an information article over at kenstone.net on the app, written by Brain Gary.

The apps appears to be dongled, and runs $775.00



Thlough I understand the need for dongles, I am still not a fan of them in terms of taking up a port (and losingg them/bending them.) Regardless I will be getting this as soon as it is available. Seems other encoders for the Mac have been lagging more recently in terms of catching up and CEX looks perfect.
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Good news! - Mac Version Cinemacraft Encoder Xtreme (Compressor Plugin)

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