Outputting 1080p23.98 to HDCam issues

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Level 6

9,250 points

Outputting 1080p23.98 to HDCam issues

From FCP 6.0.3, I'm attempting to output a fully-rendered 84 min film (1920x1080 23.98fps ProRes422 HQ) to an HDCam (HDW-F500 deck) and running into issues with Warning 02 - Lost Lock.

The deck is set for 23.98 Psf and external sync (set to Ext HD), since we're using a Denecke SB-T for tri-sync (set to 23.976 and 1080psf), connected to the Ref HD jacks.

From the FCP side, I'm using the the ProRes 1080psf Easy Setup - the only adjustment is disabling Mirror on Desktop - feeding out to my AJA Kona LHe installed on my Mac Pro (2007 8-core with 8GB RAM). I'm connecting to the F500 via SDI out from my Kona. The footage (and render files) reside on a 1.5 TB CalDigit S2VR Duo with 460 GB free

As for AJA drivers, I'm on the 5.1 (but not NDD) version. The AJA Control Panel is showing my output as being 1080sf23.98 when controlled by FCP.

For visual monitoring purposes, I'm feeding an AJA Hi5 with the pulldown HD-SDI output from the F500, out to a HDMI-equipped LCD. I mention this because I'm beginning to get some weird stuff (it looks like a caterpillar is moving across my screen, in a loop, on a single line)

When attempting an Insert Edit at 59:00:00 (after blacking the tape of course) I typically get the Lost Lock warning within 60-90 secs.

Thoughts? I'm sure I'm doing something wrong...

3.0 Ghz 8-Core Mac Pro (2007) / 2.5 Ghz 15" MacBook Pro (Early 2008), Mac OS X (10.5.2), Final Cut Studio 2.0.3; 16GB iPod Touch; 40GB TV

Posted on Apr 17, 2008 7:33 AM

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Answer 1

Shane Ross

Level 8

43,110 points

Apr 17, 2008 8:08 AM in response to hanumang

This is why I go somewhere to let others output my show. I know JACK about those complex HDCAM decks.

Sorry.

Shane

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Answer 2

tallguy

Level 4

1,415 points

Apr 17, 2008 11:00 AM in response to hanumang

you might want to try making the HDCam deck to look at "input video" for ref, and put your Kona in "free run"
The deneke will output tri level but it wants to be jammed from something, and both the kona and the deck need to ref the same thing. They work great on set keeping cams all on the same TC but not necessarily a standalone ref device. you may be able to trick both machines running the deneke output to an analog DA and feeding both the output from that. an AJA Gen10 would be a better choice esp for $390.00 list. feed both a 23.98 tri level from that.

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Answer 3

hanumang Author

Level 6

9,250 points

Apr 17, 2008 3:42 PM in response to tallguy

I actually started this entire process with the deck set to input video and with the Kona in Free Run. I ended up being able to only dump about 20-25 secs before getting the darned Lost Lock warning.

That's when I started using the Denecke. It helped some - I could dump 65 secs before Lost Lock appeared.

Speaking of sync boxes, yeah, I'd definitely purchase something if I worked with decks more. But I don't really like decks - to be fair, they don't like me either - and everything here was rented. I definitely wouldn't by the Denecke. As you said, it seems cool for the field, but I don't think it's so hot in the dub station.

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Answer 4

tallguy

Level 4

1,415 points

Apr 18, 2008 7:27 AM in response to hanumang

I should have thought of this but sounds like you were trying to record with 23.98 PD. that puts 29.97 down the 422 line which will certainly cause lock issues. you've got to record at pure 23.98 not PD. Of course monitoring can be an issue if your don't have an HDSDI mon capable of 23.98

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Answer 5

hanumang Author

Level 6

9,250 points

Apr 18, 2008 9:52 AM in response to tallguy

Interesting idea. The signal being fed to the deck was 1080psf, not 1080p, according to the AJA Control Panel. My understanding - admittedly limited - is that is the correct setting for the material.

Is it possible for the Kona LHe to add pulldown to that?

For time and money reasons, we had to throw in the towel, so the deck is gone. Regardless, I'm very curious as to what I was doing wrong, since I might need to dump again in the very near future...

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Answer 6

tallguy

Level 4

1,415 points

Apr 18, 2008 10:31 AM in response to hanumang

yes correct 1080 23.98 Psf (progressive segmented frame) meaning the frame is stored on tape 1/2 a frame per field and recombined on output, very clever use of the helical scan head. If the Kona is set to 23.98 Psf it won't insert a pulldown, but it will expect 422 communication at 23.98. The deck will insert a pulldown if it's set to 23.98 PD and thus the TC becomes 29.97 and that info travels down the 422 line. So both the Kona and the deck are not on the same page as they query each other for where are you? the frame counts won't match and they won't be happy.

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Answer 7

hanumang Author

Level 6

9,250 points

Apr 18, 2008 12:45 PM in response to tallguy

Well, this is admittedly making my head spin, but would it be possible, with that level of frame rate mismatch, for recording to even take place? The deck was definitely set for 23.98 and PsF (that's what both the indicators said).

At a point of boiling frustration, I performed an Assemble Edit (instead of the typical Insert, after I blacked a tape). When doing that - just for the heck of it - the recording went on for 83 minutes, it gave me a Lost Lock with 1 minute left in our end credits. I then rewound the tape for about 60 minutes and played. Got a Lost Lock in 20 seconds with a picture dropout.

Since you're familiar with the deck, does this seem at all plausible? Does this feed your theory about a frame rate/communication mismatch?

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Answer 8

tallguy

Level 4

1,415 points

Apr 18, 2008 2:45 PM in response to hanumang

You got a lost lock on just Play??

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Answer 9

hanumang Author

Level 6

9,250 points

Apr 18, 2008 4:04 PM in response to tallguy

Yes indeed - Lost Lock on Play.

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Answer 10

fearless

Level 6

9,538 points

Apr 19, 2008 6:28 PM in response to hanumang

I'd lock the Kona to tri-sync and the deck to Vid In, unless you've carefully timed the HDW against house sync. It's important that the source is locked, even if the destination isn't - the deck will take its cue happily from incoming video if it's allowed to. On the other hand, if it's locked to (mistimed) house sync and the Kona is running freely, or itself locked to house sync (in a different relationship), the timing issues you describe will arise.

Also worth checking that Device Control is as you expect - this gets complicated with 23.98 > 29.97 cross-conversions, which I realise you're not doing now. Did one the other day via the Multibridge - good but fiddly.

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Answer 11

tallguy

Level 4

1,415 points

Apr 21, 2008 1:20 PM in response to hanumang

Losing lock on play means the video on the tape and whatever ref you are using don't match or worse, head clog, bad servo etc. Sorry about your experience.

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Answer 12

hanumang Author

Level 6

9,250 points

Apr 23, 2008 6:05 PM in response to hanumang

While not solved, per se, because I never was able to pinpoint my issue, I'm closing out.

Thanks for all the pointers, folks.

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