where is firewire firmware version info?

Question

Level 2

355 points

where is firewire firmware version info?

How do I find out what version of Firewire firmware is in my computer?

According to Apple's article, FireWire 2.2.2 and 2.3.3: Information and Download

To check if you have the FireWire extensions, look in the Extensions folder, in the System Folder on your computer's hard disk. To check which version of the FireWire software you have, use the Get Info command in the File menu (in the Finder).

In /System Folder/Extensions there seems to be 3 FireWire related items:
1. FireWire Authoring Support (v1.1.2 Mac OS CPU Software 4.0)
2. FireWire Enabler (v.2.8.4 Mac OS CPU Software 4.0)
3. FireWire Support (v. 2.8.4 Mac OS CPU Software 4.0)

(There did not seem to be anything Firewire related in /System Folder/Extensions (Disabled)). (Information for Firewire from System Profiler is at end in note 1.) What part of this information, if any, is the firewire firmware version.

Additionally, this Apple article states that the software version for OS 9.2.2 should be Firewire 2.8.5. I don't see anything referring to v2.8.5 in the above extensions listings.

I have used firewire to connect the iMac to my iBook (and used both in Target Disk Mode) and to connect my LaCie 250GB external fw HD (and used the connection to create a bootable duplicate of the iMac HD, store media files and run LaCie's firmware updater to verify that the external HD has the LaCie's most recent firmware.)

Note 1: The following information is listed under System Profiler-Hardware-Firewire:

FireWire Bus:
Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
008B:
Manufacturer: 0000D0B9
Model: 0x0
GUID: 0xD0B9208B006FCA
Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Connection Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Sub-units:
008B Unit:
Unit Software Version: 0x10483
Unit Spec ID: 0x609E
Firmware Revision: 0x5
Product Revision Level: 1.14
Sub-units:
008B SBP-LUN:

Note 2: I'm not sure what correct Topic is for this question so I apologize in advance if I'm in the wrong topic, (I searched these Discussion Topics for firewire but couldn't get a sense that this type of question was concentrated in any particular Topic)

Posted on Sep 24, 2005 11:36 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Sep 25, 2005 12:18 AM in response to JNK

Additionally, this Apple article states that the software version for OS 9.2.2 should be Firewire 2.8.5. I don't see anything referring to v2.8.5 in the above extensions listings.
I have used firewire to connect the iMac to my iBook (and used both in Target Disk Mode) and to connect my LaCie 250GB external fw HD -- JNK

Don't be surprised. I can tell you with no doubt that the firmware on my units is Version ver.2004.12.09.200 on BOTH of the external FireWire boxes attached to this Mac.

Yet Tiger reports this (they also changed around the numeric representations to Hexadecimal compared to what they used in Panther):

FireWire Bus:

Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec

:

Manufacturer:
Model: 0x1
GUID: 0xE000000BA
Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Connection Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Sub-units:
Unit:
Unit Software Version: 0x10483
Unit Spec ID: 0x609E
Firmware Revision: 0x12804
Product Revision Level:
Sub-units:
SBP-LUN:
Capacity: 186.31 GB
Removable Media: Yes
BSD Name: disk1
OS9 Drivers: No
S.M.A.R.T. status: Not Supported
Volumes:
External 200GB:
Capacity: 186.19 GB
Available: 8.26 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk1s3
Mount Point: /Volumes/External 200GB

(1394 ATAPI,Rev 1.00):

Manufacturer: Prolific PL3507 Combo Device
Model: 0x1
GUID: 0x50770500003221
Maximum Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Connection Speed: Up to 400 Mb/sec
Sub-units:
(1394 ATAPI,Rev 1.00) Unit:
Unit Software Version: 0x10483
Unit Spec ID: 0x609E
Firmware Revision: 0x12804
Product Revision Level: 3.04
Sub-units:
(1394 ATAPI,Rev 1.00) SBP-LUN:

Did you catch ver.2004.12.09.200 in there anywhere? You are left up to the chipset manufacturer's utilities to read and display the version number of the flash image currently loaded and in use on the external drivers controller board.

Jan J.

Reply

Answer 2

JNK Author

Level 2

355 points

Sep 25, 2005 12:30 AM in response to Jan Johannsen

Hello Jan -

Thanks for responding so quickly.

I have a question - I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. I'm not familiar with the hardware involved. What do you mean by "external fw boxes?"

This may sound like a stupid question but I'm really not familiar with hardware options here. Are you referring to the firmware version of an attached fw device such as an external HD or scanner or do you have firewire boxes with ports that are attached to your computer as opposed to the internal fw drives (i.e. my ports are on the side of my CRT/computer unit.)

My understanding is that the external devices such as the drives and scanners can themselves have firewire firmware versions but that there is also both a firewire firmware version and firewire software version in the Mac's OS as well?

From your response, does the information in System Profiler tell you (theoretically or in hexadecimals) what the firmware version of the attached device is (e.g. an external HD or scanner) and the information in the System folder would tell you the firewire firmware and software version of your Mac's internal fw ports (the latter of which I'm still trying to figure out!)?

Reply

Answer 3

JNK Author

Level 2

355 points

Sep 25, 2005 12:33 AM in response to Jan Johannsen

I just had a personal "aha" moment -

So does all that information listed under System Profiler actually refer to the fw connection to my scanner? (Because what lead me to the original question in my post was that it didn't look like System Profiler was registering the scanner.)

But from what you're saying that info I'm seeing in System Profiler-Hardware-Firewire actually is my scanner but unnamed and with numeric info turned into hexadecimals?

If so, that answers one question, but still leaves me with the problem of figuring out what the firewire firmware version is on my iMac itself.

and also, how do I know if the fw version of the peripherals (e.g. my scanner and dv camera) are "compatible"? - as long as they work does that mean there's no threat to the fw ports and/or fw software on either the computer or the attached devices or to the computer or devices themselves?

Reply

Answer 4

Sep 25, 2005 12:55 AM in response to JNK

I have a question - I want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. I'm not familiar with the hardware involved. What do you mean by "external fw boxes?" -- JNK

external fw boxes = the USB2/FireWire boxes that I purchased at a store to put my own Dual Layer DVD burner drive in and the one I purchased to put in a Maxtor HDD at about 200GB in size.

When you purchase an "all-in-one" product off the shelf such as a LaCie external hard drive for an example. They took an external box like I bought, put a hard disk from, for example Maxtor just like I bought, and put the hard drive in the box and sell it under their own name for considerable markup in price to support the advertising and tech support for you as their customer. [simplification]

If you look inside you will find they use the same chips (the two largest producers are Prolific and Oxford) so you have the same capabilities and problems with buggy chipsets as you do buying your own external box directly and putting your own hard drives in them.

For a price example, the external 3.5" USB2 interface and FireWire 400 interface box cost me $27. A NEC 3520A Dual Layer DVD burner cost me $39. Total cost = $66. LaCie drive matching the closest = $149.00 without software, $189.00 with a copy of Toast. The difference is I support my own hardware by going directly to Prolific or Oxford and using their software to update the boxes. With LaCie I would have to wait an additional amount of time for them to determine if an update at say Oxford is something they want to release to their customers and when they write a patch with any custom modifications you finally get the update.

My understanding is that the external devices such as the drives and scanners can themselves have firewire firmware versions but that there is also both a firewire firmware version and firewire software version in the Mac's OS as well? -- JNK

There are three components to the connection, There is a FireWire controller chip in the Mac itself (Agere I believe is the manufacturer). There is the software drivers in OS X that communicate with the Agere chip and the OS. There is a firewire controller chip inside the external device you bought that plugs into the Mac (and this either has firmware that is upgradable by flash ram in the external device that holds the file or you are stuck with a permant firmware in ROM that cannot be upgraded.)

From your response, does the information in System Profiler tell you (theoretically or in hexadecimals) what the firmware version of the attached device is (e.g. an external HD or scanner) and the information in the System folder would tell you the firewire firmware and software version of your Mac's internal fw ports (the latter of which I'm still trying to figure out!)? -- JNK

Run Calculator. Select View>Programmer

Reply

Answer 5

Sep 25, 2005 1:00 AM in response to JNK

I just had a personal "aha" moment -
So does all that information listed under System Profiler actually refer to the fw connection to my scanner? (Because what lead me to the original question in my post was that it didn't look like System Profiler was registering the scanner.)
But from what you're saying that info I'm seeing in System Profiler-Hardware-Firewire actually is my scanner but unnamed and with numeric info turned into hexadecimals? -- JNK

You learn pretty fast.

Good on ya!

If so, that answers one question, but still leaves me with the problem of figuring out what the firewire firmware version is on my iMac itself.
and also, how do I know if the fw version of the peripherals (e.g. my scanner and dv camera) are "compatible"? - as long as they work does that mean there's no threat to the fw ports and/or fw software on either the computer or the attached devices or to the computer or devices themselves? -- JNK

Do not worry about your iMac, Apple keeps those up to date.

It is the external devices you need to worry about. Most problems with the chipsets are bugs that manifest themselves when daisy-chaining multiple devices together on the bus. The other major area are hard drives, and exceeding certain sizes, like 400MB and bugs that cause lockups, destroyed partitions and data loss.. nothing too serious as you can see winks

Jan J.

Reply

Answer 6

JNK Author

Level 2

355 points

Sep 25, 2005 6:24 AM in response to Jan Johannsen

Thank you again - that was an extremely illuminating response - in so many ways! I have downloaded it into my personal reference library)!

re: DIY
The savings costs are substantial. Not that I plan on doing this in the near future but where does one buy such supplie?.

re: Calculator
Another new tidbit! I didn't know Calculator could do that. Now if only I could figure out what numbers I should enter from System Profiler to convert! - I'll play around with it a bit.

re: Scanner's firewire controller chip

It is the external devices you need to worry about.

I guess I need to figure out if the fw chip in the scanner will be a problem with Tiger probably by asking the manufacturer?

Can a buggy chip in an external fw device incompatible with the current OS cause damage to the computer and/or the device?

re: my iMac's firmware version

Do not worry about your iMac, Apple keeps those up to date.

Actually, I have an iMac for 2001 that came with both 0S 9 and the first version of OS X. Having recently found out that I went for 2 years of Jag and Panther without a critical (and supposedly catastrophic - I think we were being watched over by a nice computer fairy) 4.1.9 firmware update, I'm very concerned about making sure we have necessary firmware updates.

Apparently, the firewire firmware version should be at least 2.3.3 so I want to make sure that the firewire firmware for the computer has the necessary updates but I can't do that unless I know what firmware version I have! And as I quoted in my original post - Apple didn't do a good job of telling me where to look for the version number 😟

re: Part 2 - making my scanner work with Tiger

Confirming the firmware version is the prelude to the second part of the "story" which involves trying to connect my Microtek ScanMaker 6800 (which has not been used since I had OS 9.2.2 back in early 2003. It was not connected since then when I added Jaguar in Dec. 2003 or Panther in March 2005.) It seems as if people are having trouble with getting "older" scanners recognized under Tiger.

Microtek's driver on its original install CD was for Classic. I'd like it to run in Tiger but Microtek doesn't have a driver listed for Tiger (their most recent update is for 10.3.9) but I wanted to see if it would work in Tiger anyway.

I deleted all of Microtek software and files from the iMac and downloaded their driver for ScanWizard 5 v.7.20.1 which is only listed as being compatible up to 10.3.9 (no mention of Tiger).

The scanner did not seem to show up in System Profiler either when I plug it into a USB port or Firewire port. (All of these ports and cables have worked with other devices.) Although based on the information you provided, what I now need to figure out is if the information given in System Profiler represents my scanner's firewire controller chip or the controller chip inside the iMac.

Image Capture does not report any device connected to either firewire or USB (although it does recognize the USB connection with my digital camera).

At first when I clicked on the ScanWizard 5 icon, it did not detect a scanner either by USB or Firewire. After visiting VueScan's website, I tried all of their troubleshooting ideas, and after restarting both computer and scanner and rechecking the cables, ScanWizard 5 detects the scanner when connected either by USB or FW and acts as expected.

I just want to make sure that there's nothing about this that could damage my computer or scanner. Although I guess I could just connect it via USB - that seems safer than fw anyway though perhaps not as quick but at least I don't have to worry about buggy chips blowing my fw ports?

Reply

Answer 7

Sep 25, 2005 10:40 PM in response to JNK

re: DIY
The savings costs are substantial. Not that I plan on doing this in the near future but where does one buy such supplie?.
re: Calculator
Another new tidbit! I didn't know Calculator could do that. Now if only I could figure out what numbers I should enter from System Profiler to convert! - I'll play around with it a bit.
re: Scanner's firewire controller chip. Can a buggy chip in an external fw device incompatible with the current OS cause damage to the computer and/or the device? -- JNK

DIY:
Try This Web Site and at the type type nec 3520a and click search. Skip anything that says refurb or reconditioned and there you have your Dual Layer DVD burner drive for example. Then type in external firewire 5.25 and there you have an external firewire box that can accept 5 1/4" drives.

Also visit This Other Website daily and you find all sort of insane special deals daily from 20" wide screen LCDs from Dell (same LCD as the Apple Cinema Display 20") but for $390 or so and with 3 years warranty instead of 1 for the ACD20" at twice the price all the way to Hard Drives for $40 by getting $100 coupons off the normal price, etc.

CALC:
0x6E58 is a hexadecimal number. 0x = "attention the following characters will be in hexadecimal format". So enter 6E58 into Calculator in Programmer view and click on the Dec button to convert it to Decimal equivalent.

CONTROLLER CHIP:
No, most likely if it is in a daisy chain of devices it can send an incorrect sized data block and just lock up the bus killing anything in progress such as a disc burn in progress or file read/write to external HDD.

I want to make sure that the firewire firmware for the computer has the necessary updates but I can't do that unless I know what firmware version I have! And as I quoted in my original post - Apple didn't do a good job of telling me where to look for the version number 😟
I just want to make sure that there's nothing about this that could damage my computer or scanner. Although I guess I could just connect it via USB - that seems safer than fw anyway though perhaps not as quick but at least I don't have to worry about buggy chips blowing my fw ports?-- JNK

I don't have your firmware reference handy from my memory, but do select Apple > About This Mac > More Info. Skip all the way down to Software and look at Extensions and Frameworks--these are the software components/drivers currently installed. You should find a few entries with the word FireWire in them.

re: Blown Ports
FireWire 400 you can blow ports by plugging the cables in upside down. This design flaw was fixed in FireWire 800 spec. Buggy chipsets don't blow your ports as much as they corrupt data, and lockup the bus and general don't play well with others.

Jan J.

Reply