exporting tracks - too quiet

I'm exporting a vocal mix to itunes and then re-importing it to my garageband song but losing a LOT of volume doing this. i read the garageband Help and took all their suggestions (moving master volume slider, using "auto normalize" in Advanced preferences to export at full volume, etc) - i even raised the level of the master track and set my itunes import preference to AIFF files. nothing changes. every time i get the same volume. why do i lose this volume? the original vocal tracks are normal volume.

G4, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on May 6, 2008 10:33 PM

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14 replies

May 6, 2008 11:28 PM in response to HangTime

i was expecting to prove you wrong but you're right. thanks. the auto normalize function is very misleading. garageband Help says: "if your exported project is too quiet, turn on the Auto Normalize feature in garageband advanced prefs". what's up with that? they give you the exact opposite advice of what's required. and they call that "Help". good thing apple doesn't write airline safety instructions.

May 7, 2008 1:02 AM in response to Steve Savitz

garageband Help says: "if your exported project is too quiet, turn on the Auto Normalize feature in garageband advanced prefs".


That's only true if your recordings have a low level throughout the track - then GB will boost them.

(I still don't understand why it gets softer when you have clippings in your track - by definition, they will have maximal volume, not more, so there is no need to lower them in volume. It probably has to do with to what dB level GB normalizes, and I don't think this is documented anywhere.)

May 7, 2008 7:41 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

Christoph Drösser wrote:
(I still don't understand why it gets softer when you have clippings in your track - by definition, they will have maximal volume, not more, so there is no need to lower them in volume. It probably has to do with to what dB level GB normalizes, and I don't think this is documented anywhere.)


Assuming GB normalizes to full level 0 dBFS (although, as you said, offhand we don't know), if there are even one or two tiny transients, normalizing would adjust the entire song downward to accommodate them, so they don't clip. Without normalizing, the momentary clipping they create might be unnoticeable, and therefore tolerable and preferable, with the entire track raised to a higher level.

Perhaps a better option for a future version would be a "smart normalize" that would analyze a song for the presence of transients that would otherwise have the effect of lowering average levels, take care of those transients through limiting, and then normalize.

May 8, 2008 6:02 AM in response to Christoph Drösser

Christoph Drösser wrote:
Maybe that's what the Levelator does (among other things).


Something along those lines, but from reading the write-up, the levalator sounds kind of aggressive, designed to even out the volume of different speakers on a podcast, which might be overkill for music.

Apple already includes excellent tools for compressing and limiting prior to normalizing, but users have to know to use them (and how to use them). This could probably easily be solved if GB had an "optimize for loudness" option prior to exporting that applied basic limiting. Or perhaps this could be a preference: "apply limiting when normalizing to maximize loudness" or something like that.

May 8, 2008 9:29 AM in response to Steve Savitz

that's the "simple" compressor. look under the effect popUp menus for more useful (though more complicated) processors, including the multiband compressor and dynamics processor.

how do you know how much to compress.


with your ears. there is no magic bullet, it's a case of listening and finding out what sounds good.

some web searches on "audio compression" should help you find lots of information

this can be applied wherever needed, at the track level for s specific track issue, or the master track to affect the entire mix.

May 8, 2008 6:21 PM in response to Steve Savitz

Steve,

Try this:

Open up the Track Info Pane on the right ("i" icon).

On your Master Track, select the Basic -> Default setting.

Open up the Details disclosure triangle on the bottom.

Uncheck the Echo and Reverb boxes (unless you want them... and if you do want them, click on the pencil icon to the right so the control panels open up and you can choose the presets and the amount of echo/reverb that fit your music).

Underneath the Echo and Reverb boxes, select the AUPeakLimiter from the drop down menu. The Limiter will help you raise overall volume. Make sure the box to the left is checked.

Click the pencil icon the right to open up the AUPeakLimiter control panel. There are no presets. Click the "ON" box on and off to hear what your song sounds like with and without the limiter. The effect of the limiter has a lot to do with the program material flowing into it. Even if it is generally inactive, it may restrain a single momentary transient that will allow the normalize function to make the entire song louder when it does its normalizing thing. (Although it may turn out that you get louder results w/o normalizing).

If you want to further raise the overall level of your song at the limiter's input, slide the pre-gain blue fader on the bottom to the right. You will be able to hear (and see on the meters) the volume go up. However, this may also cause unpleasant artifacts (which you can exaggerate by sliding the fader all the way to the right), so I'd be careful with it.

The blue graph on the bottom will show how much the limiter is working.

On the Master Track, you may also want to add the Compressor. All it offers are presets, but you may find one that suits your music just fine as is. This will also limit the dynamic range and enable overall volume to be raised. The preset likely includes make-up gain, so you may hear your track immediately get louder when checked.

By experimenting with the limiter and compressor on the master track, along with the master volume control and normalizing function, you'll probably be able to boost your overall levels more to your liking.

May 9, 2008 4:26 PM in response to Steve Savitz

Steve Savitz wrote:
This is really helpful. I'll try all of these. are there any compression presets in the master track that you think are great? (rock/folk mixes). i guess it varies from song to song but some just sound bad.

Steve


I haven't really used them enough to develop all that many opinions, but I tend to drift to the ones that include "basic" in their names. Pop Basic, Rock Basic, that kind of thing. Some of the presets seem garish to me, and without the ability to go in and tone things down, I guess the ones called "basic" give me some illusion of moderation. And for rock and folk mixes in particular, my own preference is to avoid over-processing.

I use Logic and GB, and this is one area where Logic shines - you can tell it exactly what to do and it does it. In GB, everything is pretty easy and automatic, but I'm not exactly sure what's going on behind the curtains. Admittedly, this is also due to my own relative newness to the program.

I also like to use 3rd party plugins, particularly for dynamics (compression and limiting) although it's hard to justify paying for them, I suppose, if you're using GB which is free or close to it. However, one company I particularly like that has great bang for the buck is PSP Audio. Their Vintage Warmer plugin both warms things up and makes them louder. I wouldn't use it for everything, in fact I wouldn't use it on a lot of things. But for some material, judiciously applied, it's amazingly good. I believe they let you download a demo version from their website to check out.

The best way to deal with the presets, as HT said, is just to put one on a track and listen (apologies for contributing to the well worn cliche, but I too am helpless against its wisdom). However, I'd add a twist: try adding an effect that seems reasonable, and that sounds good for what you're doing. Then bounce that out ("share" - export to disk, whatever). Then, change it. Add a different effect, and bounce that out as well. Then listen to and compare them in a totally different environment.

Working in front of your computer with whatever speakers you have and with the sound and natural reverb of your room, it can become difficult to tell what these effects are really doing... where your song ends and your room begins. But if you take the track with you where you're used to listening to music, on your iPod, driving, deep sea diving, wherever you tend to listen to music, that can sometimes give you a better sense of it. Then you can compare the different versions in an environment that may be more natural, and also is just different from your computer setup, different being good.

Also, leaving the rarified environment of a studio and playing back on normal equipment can sometimes relieve unnecessary stress - hey this sounds pretty good! - or the opposite - this sounds worse than we thought! On a strictly dynamic level, it can also give you an immediate sense of how loud your levels are relative to other material since the gain staging of your studio might be misleading you.

Speaking of other material, another thing that people sometimes do is compare their track with a reference track of music they know and like that can serve as something of a beacon. For example, if you're going for a certain feel or sound with your song that is absolutely captured in a song you really love, if you take your recording and compare it to the other song, it may leap out at you that your recording lacks bass or punch or high frequency shimmer. Knowing that, you could then go back into GB and choose a preset or otherwise tweak your track that might help compensate for the difference, e.g. Rock Bass Boost.

Anyway, happy recording!

May 13, 2008 7:41 AM in response to Steve Savitz

I too increasingly appreciate the value of simple!

If you are going to check out PSP, the one plug I'd really recommend is Vintage Warmer, which put them on the map. I've never used it with GB, only Logic, but it does a great job of raising volume levels "with vintage character" -- if that's appropriate for your material. You could probably download the demo and know immediately if you loved it or hated it.

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exporting tracks - too quiet

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